Fake Cromwell Crown

[DaveG38]

My guess, buyers who thought it authentic. Presumably not english speaking...

I appreciate that London Coins is a reputable auctioneers, with plenty of experience, but are we absolutely sure that their assessment of this crown is correct. As far as I can see, the weight they quote is correct give or take 0.1gm and their only criterion for it being a fake is a small bubble or two on the reverse. Given the era it was struck in, it seems to me to be perfecty possible for a flan to show small flaws - after all they show up on coins almost uo to the present day. Is that really enough to condemn this coin I wonder, or are there other factors that they haven't quoted?

[numismatist]

The two tiny bubbles on the back are on ALL or MOST Genuine Cromwell Crowns,

so would be there if a pressure die was made from a Genuine Coin. So maybe it

was Genuine after all , but its strange they would make such a major mistake.

[Peckris]

The two tiny bubbles on the back are on ALL or MOST Genuine Cromwell Crowns,

so would be there if a pressure die was made from a Genuine Coin. So maybe it

was Genuine after all , but its strange they would make such a major mistake.

Maybe they bought it as a fake, and paid 'fake' money for it - they could hardly then go on to advertise it as genuine.

[Rob]

In addition to the bubbles, it looks like the flaw has been mostly tooled out which may be one reason for their assessment.

[NRP]

Speaking to a dealer I know very well who has been in coins for 40 years and handled some of the rarest coins is adamant it was real

[Peckris]

All in all, it looks like London Coins were most likely wrong on this one. I hope wherever they got it from wasn't swindled out of its true value...

[Nick]

All in all, it looks like London Coins were most likely wrong on this one. I hope wherever they got it from wasn't swindled out of its true value...

I would imagine that the vast majority of auction lots are supplied by private individuals, so for the person concerned - they will probably be delighted with the result.

[numismatist]

Here it is £5500.00 for sale with " Buckscoins " He must think its Genuine ?

Ebay 360732314114

[Paulus]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/360732314114;jsessionid=4C6724ABCFB2849440D57A1CABB1C706?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D360732314114%26_rdc%3D1

[NRP]

Speaking to London coins at the London show on Saturday it turns out the coin was actually genuine and they were mis informed by the seller who apparently bought it in a mix lot of coins and could not believe a genuine Cromwell crown could be amongst them!!!

[Nick]

Speaking to London coins at the London show on Saturday it turns out the coin was actually genuine and they were mis informed by the seller who apparently bought it in a mix lot of coins and could not believe a genuine Cromwell crown could be amongst them!!!

London Coins should only take information from the seller as a guide. Part of what the seller pays for is the experience and expertise of the auction house and they should be the ones stating whether it is genuine or not.

[NRP]

Very true!!! I viewed the coin and at the time I thought it was genuine but knew there would be a stigma attached to the coin once they wrote not genuine!!

[Coinery]

Very true!!! I viewed the coin and at the time I thought it was genuine but knew there would be a stigma attached to the coin once they wrote not genuine!!

Yes, not one to pass on with provenance!

And LC should definitely be advising the seller, they should be acting in the buyer's best interest, after all, especially when they take nigh on 40% of the value of the coin from the two parties!

[azda]

I asked buckscoins about it, he wrote

Fakes don't sell for £3,800 I know 4 full time professional dealers who had bids over £3,000 and the auctioneer also spoke to me and explained how the mistake happened.

Now pardon me, but fakes do sell for 4 figures (Gothic Crowns), but what i'd like to know is, at what Point was the mistake reversed, was the auction house informed of this and was this perhaps a ploy to buy a cheap coin at the time of printing the catalogue? Does Sound a bit dubious

Edited September 11, 2013 by azda

[Paulus]

Chris at Buckscoins said the same to me, and subsequently added:

"He (the auctioneer) came and spoke to me before the sale but we had already spotted it was genuine"

[azda]

I wonder if Londons told the room though, if not, why not.

[Hussulo]

If it is a fake. Very very scary indeed.

[Sword]

I wonder if anyone noticed that this crown was on sale in the recent London Coins Auction (lot 2740)? It was on Ebay until 31st July and the seller was Bucks. Do auction houses have special arrangements with regard to commission with some dealers? Otherwise one would surely make a big loss buying from and then reselling with the same auction within such a short period of time.

Also the grading was somewhat cheeky. It was graded as nEF when they thought it was a fake last year. Bucks then graded it as aEF. It was then graded as EF in this auction.

[azda]

I wonder if anyone noticed that this crown was on sale in the recent London Coins Auction (lot 2740)? It was on Ebay until 31st July and the seller was Bucks. Do auction houses have special arrangements with regard to commission with some dealers? Otherwise one would surely make a big loss buying from and then reselling with the same auction within such a short period of time.

Also the grading was somewhat cheeky. It was graded as nEF when they thought it was a fake last year. Bucks then graded it as aEF. It was then graded as EF in this auction.

After looking at it i don't think its the same coin

Edited September 8, 2014 by azda

[Sword]

The photo in the hard copy of the catalogue is not great but I had a look at the auction photo on their website last night. (The website photo has now been removed as the auction is over). It must surely be the same coin. One can still see from the catalogue photo the spot under the V, the distinctive scratch on the head, the scratch in front of the mouth, on the neck, and on the C.

[azda]

The one last year had scratches from the forehead, whereas the 2 that were in this sale don't appear to have the same scratches