If you had to pick one, what would be your favourite portrait?

[Rob]

I can't make my mind up between Mary, Cromwell, Briot's Charles I or Huth's George V portraits.

That is cheating, you have to pick one!

I can't, but I'll meet you halfway. Cromwell

or Huth

[Peter]

I'm with Peter on this - ok, old mad George may not have been the best subject, but there is something beautifully balanced about portrait. I do like the Vicky Gothic portrait but it comes in a little behind this.

100% agree with you both, I think the G3 copper series is a very pretty run of coins, would make a very eye-appealing collection, I've been tempted myself! I particularly love the chestnut tones that seem to turn up quite regularly with these coins, like nothing I've noticed on any other copper. I think I would try and get the full set in this colour, would look breathtaking I think!

How many do you want?

Decent stuff is few and far between unless your wallet is bottomless.

I love honest coins in circulation which have somehow escaped the riddles of time.Looking back at my records all 3 were purchased for less than £275 total sum(I will take all your stock at that price )1 was negotiated with a dealer and 2 were best offers on Ebay.

If you can manage this Rob I will take your stock

[Mongo]

hard to say, probably the facing portraits of the tudors

but i dont have a nice example of it, been some nice roman ones as well.

Does not have to be your own coin scott, pull one off google image search(I did for the Old Head Vic), be nice to see a high grade example of your favourite.

[Rob]

Actually, although I don't collect them, I think some of the ancient Greek portraits are superb.

[Mongo]

I can't make my mind up between Mary, Cromwell, Briot's Charles I or Huth's George V portraits.

That is cheating, you have to pick one!

or Huth

Now that is a nice portrait! very smart. I like the toga, is that one of your Patterns? It looks almost "Roman" in a way.

Edited July 28, 2012 by Mongo

[Rob]

I can't make my mind up between Mary, Cromwell, Briot's Charles I or Huth's George V portraits.

That is cheating, you have to pick one!

or Huth

Now that is a nice portrait! very smart. I like the toga, is that one of your Patterns?

Yes. It's a 1911 pattern double florin struck by Pinches for Reginald Huth. Linecar & Stone dies 1Aii.

Just discovered an error in L&S today (as I was chasing a provenance of a 1Ci dies in Zinc recently acquired which has thrown up a real can of worms). They list the iron pattern as dies 1Bii (L&S21) based on an example in the Lingford catalogue (1950), but the catalogue description clearly relates to a 1Aii die combination. The weight of the Lingford piece at 420 grains is within 1 grain of this coin and the description of a little rust agrees with the spot by the truncation and the lower eyelid. So quite possibly it was Lingford 637 but unfortunately this was not illustrated.

[Mongo]

Yes. It's a 1911 pattern double florin struck by Pinches for Reginald Huth. Linecar & Stone dies 1Aii.

Just discovered an error in L&S today (as I was chasing a provenance of a 1Ci dies in Zinc recently acquired which has thrown up a real can of worms). They list the iron pattern as dies 1Bii (L&S21) based on an example in the Lingford catalogue (1950), but the catalogue description clearly relates to a 1Aii die combination. The weight of the Lingford piece at 420 grains is within 1 grain of this coin and the description of a little rust agrees with the spot by the truncation and the lower eyelid. So quite possibly it was Lingford 637 but unfortunately this was not illustrated.

Forgive me Rob. I was going to reply to this, but then I realised... I have no idea what you are talking about! I will have to start learning all these terms, I have just about got my head around what a pattern is. The joys of being a newb!

[Rob]

Yes. It's a 1911 pattern double florin struck by Pinches for Reginald Huth. Linecar & Stone dies 1Aii.

Just discovered an error in L&S today (as I was chasing a provenance of a 1Ci dies in Zinc recently acquired which has thrown up a real can of worms). They list the iron pattern as dies 1Bii (L&S21) based on an example in the Lingford catalogue (1950), but the catalogue description clearly relates to a 1Aii die combination. The weight of the Lingford piece at 420 grains is within 1 grain of this coin and the description of a little rust agrees with the spot by the truncation and the lower eyelid. So quite possibly it was Lingford 637 but unfortunately this was not illustrated.

Forgive me Rob. I was going to reply to this, but then I realised... I have no idea what you are talking about! I will have to start learning all these terms, I have just about got my head around what a pattern is. The joys of being a newb!

A pattern is a design which wasn't adopted for currency. Some are wildly different from the currency pieces, others have only subtle differences but are still patterns because they weren't adopted. Somewhere along the line, somebody will have catalogued the dies of the various patterns which then becomes the standard reference for that series. In the case of the Huth pattern double florins, ESC lists some in silver, platinum and gold with a footnote that other metal strikes were also produced - iron, copper, zinc, etc (tin, lead, cadmium). Linecar & Stone (English Proof and Pattern Crown Size Pieces, Spink 1968) lists the die combinations they could positively identify, but this as noted above has an error for L&S21. There is one obverse die (1), 4 reverses (A-D) and 4 edges (i-iv). So 1Aii refers to obverse 1, reverse A and edge ii. Lingford had probably the definitive collection of crowns in British numismatic history which was sold at Glendining in October 1950. He also had a vast collection of most other things, but only the James I and Scottish went through the saleroom with the rest acquired by Baldwins following his death.

[Mongo]

Yes. It's a 1911 pattern double florin struck by Pinches for Reginald Huth. Linecar & Stone dies 1Aii.

Just discovered an error in L&S today (as I was chasing a provenance of a 1Ci dies in Zinc recently acquired which has thrown up a real can of worms). They list the iron pattern as dies 1Bii (L&S21) based on an example in the Lingford catalogue (1950), but the catalogue description clearly relates to a 1Aii die combination. The weight of the Lingford piece at 420 grains is within 1 grain of this coin and the description of a little rust agrees with the spot by the truncation and the lower eyelid. So quite possibly it was Lingford 637 but unfortunately this was not illustrated.

Forgive me Rob. I was going to reply to this, but then I realised... I have no idea what you are talking about! I will have to start learning all these terms, I have just about got my head around what a pattern is. The joys of being a newb!

A pattern is a design which wasn't adopted for currency. Some are wildly different from the currency pieces, others have only subtle differences but are still patterns because they weren't adopted. Somewhere along the line, somebody will have catalogued the dies of the various patterns which then becomes the standard reference for that series. In the case of the Huth pattern double florins, ESC lists some in silver, platinum and gold with a footnote that other metal strikes were also produced - iron, copper, zinc, etc (tin, lead, cadmium). Linecar & Stone (English Proof and Pattern Crown Size Pieces, Spink 1968) lists the die combinations they could positively identify, but this as noted above has an error for L&S21. There is one obverse die (1), 4 reverses (A-D) and 4 edges (i-iv). So 1Aii refers to obverse 1, reverse A and edge ii. Lingford had probably the definitive collection of crowns in British numismatic history which was sold at Glendining in October 1950. He also had a vast collection of most other things, but only the James I and Scottish went through the saleroom with the rest acquired by Baldwins following his death.

Thanks for the lesson Rob. How much do I owe you?

Patterns are starting to sound a little more interesting now... are they struck at the mint, privately for engravers to exhibit their work, or both? I am intrigued. I see "patterns" on ebay, very cheap. I saw some 1933 pennies described as patterns, I am asuming these are not the real thing, but rather modern replica's?

Sounds like a whole new world of coin collecting!

[copper123]

Vicky ww portrait

charles II

William III

George 1V

George V

willaim IV

George III

George II

George I

[Peter]

Vicky ww portrait

charles II

William III

George 1V

George V

willaim IV

George III

George II

George I

Nice one Coppers.They are all small art pieces.

[azda]

I bought this one for the little guy last year and is one of my favourites of his. I bought this on eye appeal and the lovely olive green tone it has..........

[Rob]

Yes. It's a 1911 pattern double florin struck by Pinches for Reginald Huth. Linecar & Stone dies 1Aii.

Just discovered an error in L&S today (as I was chasing a provenance of a 1Ci dies in Zinc recently acquired which has thrown up a real can of worms). They list the iron pattern as dies 1Bii (L&S21) based on an example in the Lingford catalogue (1950), but the catalogue description clearly relates to a 1Aii die combination. The weight of the Lingford piece at 420 grains is within 1 grain of this coin and the description of a little rust agrees with the spot by the truncation and the lower eyelid. So quite possibly it was Lingford 637 but unfortunately this was not illustrated.

Forgive me Rob. I was going to reply to this, but then I realised... I have no idea what you are talking about! I will have to start learning all these terms, I have just about got my head around what a pattern is. The joys of being a newb!

A pattern is a design which wasn't adopted for currency. Some are wildly different from the currency pieces, others have only subtle differences but are still patterns because they weren't adopted. Somewhere along the line, somebody will have catalogued the dies of the various patterns which then becomes the standard reference for that series. In the case of the Huth pattern double florins, ESC lists some in silver, platinum and gold with a footnote that other metal strikes were also produced - iron, copper, zinc, etc (tin, lead, cadmium). Linecar & Stone (English Proof and Pattern Crown Size Pieces, Spink 1968) lists the die combinations they could positively identify, but this as noted above has an error for L&S21. There is one obverse die (1), 4 reverses (A-D) and 4 edges (i-iv). So 1Aii refers to obverse 1, reverse A and edge ii. Lingford had probably the definitive collection of crowns in British numismatic history which was sold at Glendining in October 1950. He also had a vast collection of most other things, but only the James I and Scottish went through the saleroom with the rest acquired by Baldwins following his death.

Thanks for the lesson Rob. How much do I owe you?

Patterns are starting to sound a little more interesting now... are they struck at the mint, privately for engravers to exhibit their work, or both? I am intrigued. I see "patterns" on ebay, very cheap. I saw some 1933 pennies described as patterns, I am asuming these are not the real thing, but rather modern replica's?

Sounds like a whole new world of coin collecting!

Correct on the last point. Patterns in my view should be a series produced contemporary with the items they would replace if adopted and can be produced at both the mint or privately. So a 1933 penny is a straightforward copy/replica which has been produced in recent years to satisfy the demand for the unobtainable and is not a pattern. There is no prospective currency for the modern 1933 pennies to be used. If they were 2012 pennies, but with an alternative design, then they would be patterns as the mint could choose to adopt them for future issues. Modern repros are produced in bulk, whereas a genuine contemporary pattern is likely to have a very low mintage, up to a dozen or two struck of a particular type would be typical, but maybe only half a dozen or fewer.

[Red Riley]

I am limited in the different portraits I have seen in the flesh, but my favourite at the moment, is by far the Old Head Victoria. I do not know whether it is because it was my first UNC coin I purchased(thanks John), or the fact that it really does capture my imagination when thinking of the Victorian era. I really like the veil, the necklace, the crown and the medal!

I have always been fascinated by Victorian era history/fiction too, Jack the Ripper and Sweeney Todd for example, so this also adds to my interest.

So, If you could only pick ONE portrait from a British coin, which is your favourite and why? You can post a nice picture if you like! I am sure these preferences change over time, but what rocks your boat at the moment?

Can't say I disagree with you (and this is a hobbyhorse of mine) as it is probably the ownly accurate portrait of her entire reign.

However beautiful you may think the Wyon portraits of Victoria were, they looked buggerall like the short plump chinless monarch. As such, I can't bring myself to nominate them as my favourite, even though I would love to spend an afternoon of pleasure with the lady portrayed, it just wouldn't be Victoria...

Anyway, here's the lady herself photographed in her thirties;

[Peckris]

Yes. It's a 1911 pattern double florin struck by Pinches for Reginald Huth. Linecar & Stone dies 1Aii.

Just discovered an error in L&S today (as I was chasing a provenance of a 1Ci dies in Zinc recently acquired which has thrown up a real can of worms). They list the iron pattern as dies 1Bii (L&S21) based on an example in the Lingford catalogue (1950), but the catalogue description clearly relates to a 1Aii die combination. The weight of the Lingford piece at 420 grains is within 1 grain of this coin and the description of a little rust agrees with the spot by the truncation and the lower eyelid. So quite possibly it was Lingford 637 but unfortunately this was not illustrated.

Forgive me Rob. I was going to reply to this, but then I realised... I have no idea what you are talking about! I will have to start learning all these terms, I have just about got my head around what a pattern is. The joys of being a newb!

Join the club!

Thanks for the lesson Rob. How much do I owe you?

Patterns are starting to sound a little more interesting now... are they struck at the mint, privately for engravers to exhibit their work, or both? I am intrigued. I see "patterns" on ebay, very cheap. I saw some 1933 pennies described as patterns, I am asuming these are not the real thing, but rather modern replica's?

Sounds like a whole new world of coin collecting!

No, not replicas (though these and fakes do exist). The pattern 1933 pennies were designed by André Lavrillier with a supposedly more 'military' looking George V. The reverse is very similar to the actual issue, except that Britannia has a thicker trident and the waves are different. One of the patterns is uniface (just the obverse). The Lavrillier 1933s are contemporary with, but even rarer than regular 1933s, though do not command quite the prices (it's a difficult one to call as any 1933 appears so rarely). The first picture I ever saw of them was in an old edition of Collectors Coins GB.

[Rob]

Thanks for the lesson Rob. How much do I owe you?

Patterns are starting to sound a little more interesting now... are they struck at the mint, privately for engravers to exhibit their work, or both? I am intrigued. I see "patterns" on ebay, very cheap. I saw some 1933 pennies described as patterns, I am asuming these are not the real thing, but rather modern replica's?

Sounds like a whole new world of coin collecting!

No, not replicas (though these and fakes do exist). The pattern 1933 pennies were designed by André Lavrillier with a supposedly more 'military' looking George V. The reverse is very similar to the actual issue, except that Britannia has a thicker trident and the waves are different. One of the patterns is uniface (just the obverse). The Lavrillier 1933s are contemporary with, but even rarer than regular 1933s, though do not command quite the prices (it's a difficult one to call as any 1933 appears so rarely). The first picture I ever saw of them was in an old edition of Collectors Coins GB.

I think the reference to replicas and copies requires both the highlighted sentence and the previous one to be considered together. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I tink Mongo was referring to the numerous modern pieces dated 1933 appearing on ebay. You don't get very many Lavrillier patterns listed, unsurprisingly.

[Peckris]

Thanks for the lesson Rob. How much do I owe you?

Patterns are starting to sound a little more interesting now... are they struck at the mint, privately for engravers to exhibit their work, or both? I am intrigued. I see "patterns" on ebay, very cheap. I saw some 1933 pennies described as patterns, I am asuming these are not the real thing, but rather modern replica's?

Sounds like a whole new world of coin collecting!

No, not replicas (though these and fakes do exist). The pattern 1933 pennies were designed by André Lavrillier with a supposedly more 'military' looking George V. The reverse is very similar to the actual issue, except that Britannia has a thicker trident and the waves are different. One of the patterns is uniface (just the obverse). The Lavrillier 1933s are contemporary with, but even rarer than regular 1933s, though do not command quite the prices (it's a difficult one to call as any 1933 appears so rarely). The first picture I ever saw of them was in an old edition of Collectors Coins GB.

I think the reference to replicas and copies requires both the highlighted sentence and the previous one to be considered together. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I tink Mongo was referring to the numerous modern pieces dated 1933 appearing on ebay. You don't get very many Lavrillier patterns listed, unsurprisingly.

Good point. But hopefully Chris will have learned something about 1933 patterns that he may not have known before?

[Mongo]

Thanks for the lesson Rob. How much do I owe you?

Patterns are starting to sound a little more interesting now... are they struck at the mint, privately for engravers to exhibit their work, or both? I am intrigued. I see "patterns" on ebay, very cheap. I saw some 1933 pennies described as patterns, I am asuming these are not the real thing, but rather modern replica's?

Sounds like a whole new world of coin collecting!

No, not replicas (though these and fakes do exist). The pattern 1933 pennies were designed by André Lavrillier with a supposedly more 'military' looking George V. The reverse is very similar to the actual issue, except that Britannia has a thicker trident and the waves are different. One of the patterns is uniface (just the obverse). The Lavrillier 1933s are contemporary with, but even rarer than regular 1933s, though do not command quite the prices (it's a difficult one to call as any 1933 appears so rarely). The first picture I ever saw of them was in an old edition of Collectors Coins GB.

I think the reference to replicas and copies requires both the highlighted sentence and the previous one to be considered together. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I tink Mongo was referring to the numerous modern pieces dated 1933 appearing on ebay. You don't get very many Lavrillier patterns listed, unsurprisingly.

Good point. But hopefully Chris will have learned something about 1933 patterns that he may not have known before?

Indeed, you are both correct! I learn something new almost every day on this forum

I wanted to check, in case I got tempted, that these so called "patterns" sold on ebay are not the real deal, as I suspected. I guess genuine patterns may be a little out of my price range for the moment, as they seem to be quite limited in supply compared to circulation coins. Could be something for the future though!

[pies]

Im expecting Rob will soon tell the name of the bloke who struck the coin ad what season it was and what he had for breakfast

I've learnt alot lately

1. I know what i like

2. I know a bit about Edward VII shillings and florins I think but no doubt what i know is wrong

3 I know F*** all else

[pies]

Oh and Lizzy 2 second bust still rules :D

[Peckris]

Indeed, you are both correct! I learn something new almost every day on this forum

I wanted to check, in case I got tempted, that these so called "patterns" sold on ebay are not the real deal, as I suspected. I guess genuine patterns may be a little out of my price range for the moment, as they seem to be quite limited in supply compared to circulation coins. Could be something for the future though!

The big difference is that patterns are produced by the Mint - or rarely, as in the case of Matthew Boulton, someone who is going to produce coins for the Mint - as prospective coin designs that are never used. Everything else are fakes, replicas, or privately-produced commemoratives (e.g. Edward VIII fantasy pieces). Real patterns are generally rare, and command high prices; I'd love to be able to afford some Boulton patterns!

Edited July 30, 2012 by Peckris

[FiftyPercentSilver]

I like the Edward VII head because he looks like he is in charge and nobody can mess with him, and because he is my favorite Monarchy which is a plus.

[Paulus]

I like the Edward VII head because he looks like he is in charge and nobody can mess with him, and because he is my favorite Monarchy which is a plus.

Welcome to the forum 50%! Are you the Rapping Numismatist? You realise of course that all Eddie 7 silver is 92.5%?

[FiftyPercentSilver]

my favorite portrait has to be the victoria bust from the gothic florin

[FiftyPercentSilver]

yes i do, but i dont buy coins because of their composition, i buy coins because of their design or how old they are