Ebay's Worst Offerings

[Rob]

More like a children's book of anatomy required, with a particularly large section on asses and elbows.

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

 Remember the PCGS farthing mule debacle from about 15 years ago??! Rather than admit an error, they essentially created a new variety...

[copper123]

On 11/13/2022 at 12:04 PM, DrLarry said:

yes I do think this is how it happens.  The sad thing is the degree to which slab buyers depend on it as gospel.  

Time to give up collecting if you cannot buy a copy of peck or work out if a coin is a genuine mule or not.

[copper123]

22 hours ago, DrLarry said:

A book is made of paper ....we are living in the age of PLASTIC 

Try eating it !

[mick1271]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333770257742?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D243436%26meid%3Dfc92ead380d64b4b9f4be2239ae2020a%26pid%3D101195%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D125611612675%26itm%3D333770257742%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv11WebTrimmedV3MskuAspectsV202110NoVariantSeedKnnRecallV5ItemNrtInQuery&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851&amdata=cksum%3A333770257742fc92ead380d64b4b9f4be2239ae2020a|enc%3AAQAHAAABMJE7%2BNyUclXdoFXnbx3NvlJX7YMqFr8NJCcyHQud2Z04j2uZxgnHXbb2ZalpwbGsJ4D%2FcbSkMz8IpnsCPJ7ydREm8lqmL0kHB523%2FFCl%2BP6D2ad5Empx%2FgOWdLWtT3Vn5QL7KrlqGr5xbsxh2mgt6K6mq5ApRt0WhfIQtmILxWluvsMY2yrIiUFMpDFclBhEB%2Bn37O2cyybs4M4Gz4lYja%2BiW8ZmS%2FI4EdT7js1ThcP8oNjX0DKbZZW8BF6%2BK9HpkuZR1wdTrmavOn4M8G6CGCFIiExq6NxZSOP5AMicNKxI%2F%2B3iaaAmAAWWF5Z%2BkaLy008TN5K6YV5%2BevmDrIGMDYK3aWNhzvAeOmq4t0QPg9uWQ%2B678v3nwC1Rf7jSJUPuGESfiT6p4ORlKdBMVKbdaeo%3D|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2047675

 

couple of issues with this one lol

[jelida]

10 minutes ago, mick1271 said:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333770257742?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D243436%26meid%3Dfc92ead380d64b4b9f4be2239ae2020a%26pid%3D101195%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D125611612675%26itm%3D333770257742%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv11WebTrimmedV3MskuAspectsV202110NoVariantSeedKnnRecallV5ItemNrtInQuery&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851&amdata=cksum%3A333770257742fc92ead380d64b4b9f4be2239ae2020a|enc%3AAQAHAAABMJE7%2BNyUclXdoFXnbx3NvlJX7YMqFr8NJCcyHQud2Z04j2uZxgnHXbb2ZalpwbGsJ4D%2FcbSkMz8IpnsCPJ7ydREm8lqmL0kHB523%2FFCl%2BP6D2ad5Empx%2FgOWdLWtT3Vn5QL7KrlqGr5xbsxh2mgt6K6mq5ApRt0WhfIQtmILxWluvsMY2yrIiUFMpDFclBhEB%2Bn37O2cyybs4M4Gz4lYja%2BiW8ZmS%2FI4EdT7js1ThcP8oNjX0DKbZZW8BF6%2BK9HpkuZR1wdTrmavOn4M8G6CGCFIiExq6NxZSOP5AMicNKxI%2F%2B3iaaAmAAWWF5Z%2BkaLy008TN5K6YV5%2BevmDrIGMDYK3aWNhzvAeOmq4t0QPg9uWQ%2B678v3nwC1Rf7jSJUPuGESfiT6p4ORlKdBMVKbdaeo%3D|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2047675

 

couple of issues with this one lol

Yes just a couple…wrong variety, wrong grade, wrong price and polished!

But at least this time it’s not the wrong 1909 penny!

I know someone here won’t be surprised to see this!

Jerry

[HistoricCoinage]

Eric?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134380955867?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=YM6dfbniSHS&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=G6uCbYI7QUO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[Peckris 2]

5 hours ago, HistoricCoinage said:

Eric?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134380955867?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=YM6dfbniSHS&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=G6uCbYI7QUO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

there's an interesting (apparently) certificate authenticating the coin among the pictures. It COULD be genuine? If it is, then it could well fetch £100k or thereabouts. IF...

however, the problem is that a Viking king Eric in the north is not necessarily Bloodaxe - Eric was a common name.

[mick1271]

1 hour ago, Peckris 2 said:

there's an interesting (apparently) certificate authenticating the coin among the pictures. It COULD be genuine? If it is, then it could well fetch £100k or thereabouts. IF...

however, the problem is that a Viking king Eric in the north is not necessarily Bloodaxe - Eric was a common name.

The PAS form is for a different coin .Same type , but not the one being sold .

[hibernianscribe]

If genuine, it would be interesting to know what valuation was submitted and accepted by PAS since unless the finder was also lucky enough to be the landowner, they would have to 'buy-out' the landowner based on the PAS value in order to legally sell the coin. A good test of provenance would therefore be to see documentation to support that! Frank 

[jelida]

The PAS will not value a find, though ‘Treasure’ items are valued by the ‘Treasure Valuation Committee’ as part of the Treasure process, if found to be Treasure and a museum wishes to acquire. As a single find it would not qualify. But this coin does not appear to have been reported to the PAS, and I suspect that the landowner is unaware of its existence, if genuine. To my mind it is not an obvious fake, as most are, and indeed may be a die duplicate of the PAS one .

Jerry

[hibernianscribe]

I agree, PAS does not value the item. However a professional valuation is asked for by the FLO that is inserted in his/her notification to PAS. This also assists any museum in their decision whether to express an interest. Frank 

[HistoricCoinage]

To be clear, I do not believe it to be genuine...

PAS reports (although there's no record of this coin) are also awaiting validation, so many coins like these are submitted by local FLOs but then pending confirmation from numismatic specialists. 

[JJs]

1 hour ago, jelida said:

The PAS will not value a find, though ‘Treasure’ items are valued by the ‘Treasure Valuation Committee’ as part of the Treasure process, if found to be Treasure and a museum wishes to acquire. As a single find it would not qualify. But this coin does not appear to have been reported to the PAS, and I suspect that the landowner is unaware of its existence, if genuine. To my mind it is not an obvious fake, as most are, and indeed may be a die duplicate of the PAS one .

Jerry

I've done an image comparison on computer, taking perspective distortions etc into account (I'm used to doing this when comparing Iceni coins with published dies), and details on this coin and the PAS one appear virtually identical right down to die flaws. I did contact the seller yesterday telling him this - he explained why he doesn't want to send it to PAS or EMC

[JJs]

12 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

 IF... however, the problem is that a Viking king Eric in the north is not necessarily Bloodaxe - Eric was a common name.

Could be an Eric Morecambe commemorative token

[jelida]

8 hours ago, hibernianscribe said:

I agree, PAS does not value the item. However a professional valuation is asked for by the FLO that is inserted in his/her notification to PAS. This also assists any museum in their decision whether to express an interest. Frank 

I am surprised that this happens in your area, it certainly doesn’t in mine (Wales, Hereford and Shropshire) for non-treasure items and for two fairly straightforward reasons; firstly, valuation (and it’s costs) is not a funded part of the FLO’s remit, and indeed could open him/her up to challenge -and secondly, for a non treasure item a museum ( or other State entity) has no right of acquisition and therefore advance valuations would be a pointless expense. Of course, should a finder wish to sell a non treasure find, then normally both parties will seek valuations informal or otherwise and hopefully reach an amicable settlement. I have recently undertaken to donate a Saxon coin that I purchased at auction  (Noonans) as it is an important Herefordshire find to the Museum involving a £5k gift on my part , the purchase price was taken as the market value. That coin had been through the PAS and recorded by the EMC in 2022 without valuation - difficult anyway as a unique coin.

Even for Treasure items, valuation comes late in the formal process and then only after a wish to acquire has been expressed. If Treasure is disclaimed and returned jointly to finder/ landowner, it is up to them to sort out their financial commitments to each other - hence the need for prior agreements.

As I stated earlier, it does not appear that this coin, if indeed a find, ever entered the PAS process.

Jerry

[hibernianscribe]

Jerry, I must admit what you say does make sense. Maybe my recollection is blurred! I therefore need to trawl back through the correspondence to confirm exactly what was asked for by the FLO. However, I was certainly asked to obtain valuations prior to the PAS submission but since all of this was being done through my MD club (it was a club site on which I found this gold artefact) I am now wondering  whether the club was asking for the valuations in order to negotiate a settlement with the landowner once the PAS process gave the all-clear which is what eventually happened. Frank 

Edited December 26, 2022 by hibernianscribe

[JJs]

Some background to the Eric Saga.

The 4th pic down in the Ebay listing is a St Peter/Sihtric penny which the seller found before his Eric. This was submitted to EMC (2018.0435) and PAS (DENO-FCA770) and eventually sold by CNG (https://auctions.cngcoins.com/lots/view/4-QVUN2/anglo-saxon-anglo-viking-hiberno-norse-northumbria-st-peter-coinage-circa-921-927-ar-penny-20mm-123-g-3h-swordcross-type-bmc-1-york-mint-struck-under-sihtric-ii-caech)

Also I uploaded a video superimposing/animating his Eric over the PAS one (YORYM-BA2295), at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b1QpPVzrKM

[jelida]

2 hours ago, JJs said:

Some background to the Eric Saga.

The 4th pic down in the Ebay listing is a St Peter/Sihtric penny which the seller found before his Eric. This was submitted to EMC (2018.0435) and PAS (DENO-FCA770) and eventually sold by CNG (https://auctions.cngcoins.com/lots/view/4-QVUN2/anglo-saxon-anglo-viking-hiberno-norse-northumbria-st-peter-coinage-circa-921-927-ar-penny-20mm-123-g-3h-swordcross-type-bmc-1-york-mint-struck-under-sihtric-ii-caech)

Also I uploaded a video superimposing/animating his Eric over the PAS one (YORYM-BA2295), at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b1QpPVzrKM

That is an impressive piece of work. So either both coins are genuine, or neither is. As the PAS is not infallible, at this point I’m going to sit on the fence. I would comment that there are a number of Eric coins on the EMC database, of many different dies, including nice round coins. There will be more genuine coins out there.

Jerry

[Peckris 2]

13 hours ago, JJs said:

Some background to the Eric Saga.

The 4th pic down in the Ebay listing is a St Peter/Sihtric penny which the seller found before his Eric. This was submitted to EMC (2018.0435) and PAS (DENO-FCA770) and eventually sold by CNG (https://auctions.cngcoins.com/lots/view/4-QVUN2/anglo-saxon-anglo-viking-hiberno-norse-northumbria-st-peter-coinage-circa-921-927-ar-penny-20mm-123-g-3h-swordcross-type-bmc-1-york-mint-struck-under-sihtric-ii-caech)

Also I uploaded a video superimposing/animating his Eric over the PAS one (YORYM-BA2295), at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b1QpPVzrKM

Ditto to the "I'm impressed". But the two coins are so similar that I'd say they probably must have come from the same location? Too much of a coincidence otherwise?

[Coinery]

I personally would start smelling a rat!

What’s the alignment between the reverse and observe of the two coins, do we know?

In the bottom right of the video, where the metal appears to stretch out, like it’s been struck slightly more heavily at that point, I’d expect to see some differences in the height/movement of the devices between the two coins on account of that. Also the beading is so perfectly matched for both coins, though in the bottom left of the video it appears as though the beading has been chopped, maybe filed?

[Iannich48]

If it looks like a rat and smells like a rat, it is a rat and should not be bought. Just my opinion.

[jelida]

Get your modern replicas certified here! Genuine fakes!  Well done London Mint Office, I would never have thought of it!  In conjunction with WRL it appears. And Blakeyboy’s favourite seller.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234887771095?hash=item36b066f3d7:g:xY0AAOSwtY9j4Tvl&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA0MedcjrSMGxQ3Cnzt8mY9pGNbrLe%2FAjkbJ4BNSTM5IdIbIQTSoHbzeTvMX5nAPL4brJXAzUt16bQDlQw4Xp8Hm2k%2BIMaalaEoptPpO%2FKEv5rQ98ZsQZd7NEeukaDSxH%2BoIpcU4boaay0LBblIshZ7%2B85MiPCF6IEpSsFVHuDNEsjQUym1MmBKDODzAPj9QKdnCiayhre%2FUNoiNLPVhtRwCMN7DYqUP7EFcbPtZC8tHvBpNzrwfI%2BDXtXHygx1VWXzRRrE9BqgqLxPTeBuJ7IWUQ%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR5rakv_EYQ

Jerry

Edited February 6, 2023 by jelida

[Peckris 2]

How long before the 'COPY' beneath Britannia's shield is carefully rubbed away and it's offered on eBay for 3 figures?

[Coinery]

That is just bonkers, ‘certified a genuine not genuine copy!’ Unbelievable!

Edited February 6, 2023 by Coinery