TOY COINS

[DrLarry]

I think as you also showed the queens Scent Box  set I thought it might be a good idea to share some of the other Royal Family sets  too.  There appear to be many more variations than listed in Rogers Section 06 # 270 to 278.  Most of the differences are in the design of the portraits.  I found a set recently with the rare ALBERT without the PRINCE I am assuming that the set in a complete set so may help with this issue.  I have found the VICTORIA without the REG but it was not associated with a set so I cannot verify what was issued with it.  As I have shown above the design of the WINDSOR CASTLE BOX has four or more variations assumably had various issues associated with them .  

Rogers #271 and # 270 a.  10.5 mm 

Edited November 27, 2022 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

On 11/25/2022 at 8:25 PM, copper123 said:

 

  There appear to be 3 different heads of Queen Victoria Moore may well have cut these different dies for each box variation.  The Size of the queens Head varies in size, one has no colons after REG :one has one Colon dot and a third is typical two colons after REG : The reverse also has differences in the punctuation after each line.  the beading is different some seem to have defined beans others have teeth some have nothing at all.  On one the BUN is enlarged and has an R over an R in REG. this portrait is much larger and the diamonds in the crown much larger 

Edited November 27, 2022 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

details 

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

Edited November 27, 2022 by DrLarry

[copper123]

I am pretty sure my 1902 hairy head farthing is copper coated iron but its in such great nick I dont fancy scratching it to find out.

Sounds like rogers spotted the farthing specialist 1849 quarter farthing too late after John had sold it to another collector and he never found another one , life's like that for coin collector's isn't it?

Edited November 27, 2022 by copper123

[copper123]

4 hours ago, DrLarry said:

I think as you also showed the queens Scent Box  set I thought it might be a good idea to share some of the other Royal Family sets  too.  There appear to be many more variations than listed in Rogers Section 06 # 270 to 278.  Most of the differences are in the design of the portraits.  I found a set recently with the rare ALBERT without the PRINCE I am assuming that the set in a complete set so may help with this issue.  I have found the VICTORIA without the REG but it was not associated with a set so I cannot verify what was issued with it.  As I have shown above the design of the WINDSOR CASTLE BOX has four or more variations assumably had various issues associated with them .  

Rogers #271 and # 270 a.  10.5 mm 

I too have a single ALBERT piece not sure how rare it is but there are at least two existing mine is in much better grade than yours though

Edited November 27, 2022 by copper123

[copper123]

The answer to the "Albert " coin might be quite simple Albert was given the title "Prince consort" in the middle of 1857 so the "albert" coin was possably an early version before he was titled that of course means all the rest were post  summer 1857.

How rotten is this country giving him this title  so late

Edited November 27, 2022 by copper123

[copper123]

20 hours ago, DrLarry said:

are those R's instead of E's ?  I am trying to think where I have placed my model coins....  my gothic copper ones as above are both 1848 I had not realised there was an 1849 

Definately E in both E

[DrLarry]

1 hour ago, copper123 said:

The answer to the "Albert " coin might be quite simple Albert was given the title "Prince consort" in the middle of 1857 so the "albert" coin was possably an early version before he was titled that of course means all the rest were post  summer 1857.

How rotten is this country giving him this title  so late

Yes that makes sense otherwise it's pretty disrespectful 

[DrLarry]

1 hour ago, copper123 said:

I too have a single ALBERT piece not sure how rare it is but there are at least two existing mine is in much better grade than yours though

Oh good I'm glad there is a better one .  Take some pics for me please 

[jelida]

2 hours ago, copper123 said:

I am pretty sure my 1902 hairy head farthing is copper coated iron but its in such great nick I dont fancy scratching it to find out.

Magnet?

Sorry………

Jerry

[DrLarry]

44 minutes ago, jelida said:

Magnet?

Sorry………

Jerry

yes that is my checking mechanism 

[DrLarry]

3 hours ago, copper123 said:

I am pretty sure my 1902 hairy head farthing is copper coated iron but its in such great nick I dont fancy scratching it to find out.

Sounds like rogers spotted the farthing specialist 1849 quarter farthing too late after John had sold it to another collector and he never found another one , life's like that for coin collector's isn't it?

yes true  you generally have to be a snatch and grab merchant .....

[DrLarry]

I must have missed the single colon type likely just a blocked die 

Edited November 27, 2022 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

The PRINCE ALBERT medalet   as far as I can see has 3 versions a large head variety where the nose points to the Gap between B and E ;  a second which has the nose pointing to lower part of the B ; a third which has the nose pointing to the middle of the B. 

 

A reverse associated with the large head has full punctuation and an 8 over an 8 ; a reverse punctuated only at the end most have an R over R in MARRIED , it may be that the one punctuated after 1819 and 1840 is simply the result of a fill.  

these medalets were made by Joseph Moore made as novelties.  Other model coins seem to have had a more serious role discussed in more detail in Rogers page 37.  they may have been made in or before 1844 (rogers) and continued to be sold after 1848 Interestingly Prince Arthur 7th son was not included but it may exists.  

 

It would not be surprising for there to be many variations and the size of the smaller ones must have been hard to view without good microscopes and the advantage of digital photography when Rogers wrote the Toy Coins Book.  

Edited November 28, 2022 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

23 hours ago, copper123 said:

I too have a single ALBERT piece not sure how rare it is but there are at least two existing mine is in much better grade than yours though

I think in terms of total numbers we are likely only dealing with no more than 4 or 5 examples surviving that are known.  Did you share your s with him when he was writing because the one in the image in the book is an uncirculated one.

[copper123]

29 minutes ago, DrLarry said:

I think in terms of total numbers we are likely only dealing with no more than 4 or 5 examples surviving that are known.  Did you share your s with him when he was writing because the one in the image in the book is an uncirculated one.

I would say probably 30-60  I don't think there are less than 10

My example anyway

[DrLarry]

5 hours ago, copper123 said:

I would say probably 30-60  I don't think there are less than 10

My example anyway

Oh OK you think as many as that.  Very Nice I am not 100% but I did try straighten yours and compared it BUT I think yours might be different.  The nose on mine ponts to the lower part of the B yours middle to upper I placed a grid over both in editor and they seem slightly different .  Of course yes I know the grade is different that can play tricks with the eyes but the sculpting of the face the profile line looks different. 

Edited November 28, 2022 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

not sure this will help 

Edited November 28, 2022 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

here are the three head types with reverse  1, THE LARGE HEAD

2. THE SMALL HEAD 

 

3.  THE INTERMEDIATE HEAD

from my own n.9  a total of  6 are small heads 1 large head 1 Middle heads and one an ALBERT without Prince 

Edited November 29, 2022 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

and the mising B and the typical reverse R over R 

                       

Edited November 29, 2022 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

The Princess Royal VICTORIA seems to have the same obverse portrait but has different reverses:  1 is cut with the B of BORN just one the V;  the 2nd have the B on the O and the colons are wider ; the 3rd has a distinct comma after ROYAL . 

Edited November 29, 2022 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

Prince Alfred  two head types and two reverse  One has an additional curl at the back of the head onto the neck and the neck s more curved ; the other the head is straighter on one he seems to be smiling mouth slightly ajar and the position of the nose is different high on the F and lower on the other the neck is fatter ( in preparation of things to come perhaps)  Again importantly in the PRINCe LESS set there is a third version of the PRINCE ALFRED the mouth is open with different lettering 

Edited November 29, 2022 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

The reveres are also different :  punctuation marks after 1844 and the size of the lettering differs and a colon between the AUG and 6 

Edited November 29, 2022 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

The Prince of WALES   this comes as no surprise to me but so far I have 5 different  obverse dies for this portrait each of them with differing lettering and remodelled head .  The Small Head (rather crudely cut) large lettering with the P of Prince touching the bust with a distinct beaded border away from the edge;  2. The Long neck (as it says) beaded border ut the bead close to the edge  The P is below the truncation; 3,  seems to have two variants with the P nearer to the point of the back truncation but the lettering of the two seem lightly different the nose (i think) pointing to the space between W and A and the other slightly lower to the A more .  All the reversese are also different 1. has dots and larger lettering ; 2.Colons and spaced beading and a different font; 3. has spaced colons and a dot after WALES

1. (A)

2 (B)  

3. (C)

Edited November 29, 2022 by DrLarry