Steep slabbing premiums

[Rob]

The slabbed world is losing all sense of perspective here. It's bonkers. They would have been better off leaving the coin out and just include the label. $825 + premium and counting.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/great-britain/world-coins/great-britain-commonwealth-1-2-penny-nd-1649-1660-ms65-ngc-/a/3089-32681.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Or something you would struggle to get more than £200-250 for.............

Edited January 21, 2021 by Rob

[Rob]

On 1/21/2021 at 1:31 AM, Rob said:

The slabbed world is losing all sense of perspective here. It's bonkers. They would have been better off leaving the coin out and just include the label. $825 + premium and counting.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/great-britain/world-coins/great-britain-commonwealth-1-2-penny-nd-1649-1660-ms65-ngc-/a/3089-32681.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Or something you would struggle to get more than £200-250 for.............

Looking at Heritage, the new owner is now actively seeking offers of $1287 or more - so only 30% more than a price that was already 4 or 5 times higher than you'd expect to pay.

I can appreciate conditional rarity for type and this is the only 65 etc, but silly old me always assumed it compared the coins and not the labels.

[Michael-Roo]

I have two Commonwealth pennies. Admittedly, neither are as good as this, but one isn't far off. I also have two Commonwealth half groats, one of which is a very nice, fully round, EF.

Maybe I should have it slabbed and rake in the oof as our cats have been reminding me it's months now since I last supplied them with shiny new tiaras.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Michael-Roo

[Diaconis]

1 hour ago, Rob said:

Looking at Heritage, the new owner is now actively seeking offers of $1287 or more - so only 30% more than a price that was already 4 or 5 times higher than you'd expect to pay.

[Michael-Roo]

9 minutes ago, Diaconis said:

Oh, what a f**king surprise. 

I'm still smarting after being suckered in to pay £500 for a scrap value sixpence.....  (er, not).

Edited February 7, 2021 by Michael-Roo

[Diaconis]

I was only hazarding a guess there Michael, but, for whatever reason, he just sort of... sprang to mind, as it were.

 

[copper123]

10 hours ago, Michael-Roo said:

I have two Commonwealth pennies. Admittedly, neither are as good as this, but one isn't far off. I also have two Commonwealth half groats, one of which is a very nice, fully round, EF.

Maybe I should have it slabbed and rake in the oof as our cats have been reminding me it's months now since I last supplied them with shiny new tiaras.

my cat just hates being dressed up

[copper123]

9 hours ago, Diaconis said:

If you expect bargain prices off heritage you will be disapointed

[1949threepence]

As I see the situation, it's companies like Heritage and others asking ridiculously inflated premiums for slabbed items, where all the serious money is migrating, and not much is ever said about it as they trade under a facade of fair trade and respectability - and as far as the coins themselves are concerned that is true, but equally true is that you're being royally ripped off.  .

All numismatic concerns are profit driven, but especially some of those based in the USA, and especially when it comes to slabbed items.

Take this 1853 OT penny - it's about EF, and to be honest nothing truly special and certainly not rare. I got one in slightly better shape than that from a dealer in Sussex for just £75 last July. Look what this US based dealer is asking for a slightly below equivalence coin - £400. That's a mark up of over 500% on what I paid a UK dealer for a better (raw) coin 7 months ago. 

In my opinion it's nothing short of bloody scandalous.     

 

 

[Iannich48]

34 minutes ago, 1949threepence said:

As I see the situation, it's companies like Heritage and others asking ridiculously inflated premiums for slabbed items, where all the serious money is migrating, and not much is ever said about it as they trade under a facade of fair trade and respectability - and as far as the coins themselves are concerned that is true, but equally true is that you're being royally ripped off.  .

All numismatic concerns are profit driven, but especially some of those based in the USA, and especially when it comes to slabbed items.

Take this 1853 OT penny - it's about EF, and to be honest nothing truly special and certainly not rare. I got one in slightly better shape than that from a dealer in Sussex for just £75 last July. Look what this US based dealer is asking for a slightly below equivalence coin - £400. That's a mark up of over 500% on what I paid a UK dealer for a better (raw) coin 7 months ago. 

In my opinion it's nothing short of bloody scandalous.     

 

 

How the hell can they grade that MS64? It clearly has wear on it. It is disgraceful, and blatant to anybody who actually looks at it before buying it just on the grade.

[PWA 1967]

15 minutes ago, 1949threepence said:

As I see the situation, it's companies like Heritage and others asking ridiculously inflated premiums for slabbed items, where all the serious money is migrating, and not much is ever said about it as they trade under a facade of fair trade and respectability - and as far as the coins themselves are concerned that is true, but equally true is that you're being royally ripped off.  .

All numismatic concerns are profit driven, but especially some of those based in the USA, and especially when it comes to slabbed items.

Take this 1853 OT penny - it's about EF, and to be honest nothing truly special and certainly not rare. I got one in slightly better shape than that from a dealer in Sussex for just £75 last July. Look what this US based dealer is asking for a slightly below equivalence coin - £400. That's a mark up of over 500% on what I paid a UK dealer for a better (raw) coin 7 months ago. 

In my opinion it's nothing short of bloody scandalous.     

 

 

Some UK sellers may also say it was rare as a DOT penny 😃

I agree though Mike ,unfortunately there will always be sellers whether the coin is slabbed or not asking what we consider to be daft prices.

Its just the American market and slowly becoming worldwide is driven by slabbed coins.

 

 

 

[Michael-Roo]

52 minutes ago, Iannich48 said:

How the hell can they grade that MS64? It clearly has wear on it. It is disgraceful, and blatant to anybody who actually looks at it before buying it just on the grade.

And described as 'choice uncirculated' by the seller. Ridiculous.

[alfnail]

Well spotted Pete. I saw that piece on Heritage and would have liked to have bought, but still at least twice what I would have paid......even for the rarer GRATI.A variety.

Same Obverse Italic 5 die as paired with the very difficult Plain Trident + Italic 5.

[1949threepence]

1 hour ago, PWA 1967 said:

Some UK sellers may also say it was rare as a DOT penny 😃

I agree though Mike ,unfortunately there will always be sellers whether the coin is slabbed or not asking what we consider to be daft prices.

Its just the American market and slowly becoming worldwide is driven by slabbed coins.

 

 

 

True, although I doubt many would have noticed - and the seller in this case definitely wouldn't have noticed. I'd lay odds on that. To the majority of buyers and dealers it would just be an OT 1853 italic 5 penny. Still massively overpriced either way. 

 

[1949threepence]

1 hour ago, Iannich48 said:

How the hell can they grade that MS64? It clearly has wear on it. It is disgraceful, and blatant to anybody who actually looks at it before buying it just on the grade.

I wondered that. I think their grading standards are slipping somewhat.

[Rob]

5 minutes ago, 1949threepence said:

I wondered that. I think their grading standards are slipping somewhat.

No they're not - they're as variable as they ever were. We just highlight the obvious outliers as we encounter them. There's plenty more where that came from.

[1949threepence]

1 hour ago, alfnail said:

Well spotted Pete. I saw that piece on Heritage and would have liked to have bought, but still at least twice what I would have paid......even for the rarer GRATI.A variety.

Same Obverse Italic 5 die as paired with the very difficult Plain Trident + Italic 5.

Wonder which were minted first from a pairing with that unique die, Ian - the OT or PT type. I'd assume it was the OT, then the PT, maybe right at the end of production for 1853.

Rare for both. 

 

[mhcoins]

16 hours ago, Rob said:

Looking at Heritage, the new owner is now actively seeking offers of $1287 or more - so only 30% more than a price that was already 4 or 5 times higher than you'd expect to pay.

I can appreciate conditional rarity for type and this is the only 65 etc, but silly old me always assumed it compared the coins and not the labels.

I think thats something that heritage does automatically on the stuff you buy from them unless you opt out

[VickySilver]

135 pounds for this unslabbed 1853 PT normal 5 from Goldberg’s. Looks better in hand, but if sent to TPG would prob only go 64 Brown  The luster not captured .  Point is, why submit?  Maybe it would sell for multiples  

 

Edited February 7, 2021 by VickySilver
Clarity

[1949threepence]

1 hour ago, VickySilver said:

135 pounds for this unslabbed 1853 PT normal 5 from Goldberg’s. Looks better in hand, but if sent to TPG would prob only go 64 Brown  The luster not captured .  Point is, why submit?  Maybe it would sell for multiples  

 

That's actually very good value for a PT 1853. 

[PWA 1967]

I think the main benefit is we all have different opinions on grade if you are looking at a picture. Pictures may show faults or problems but may not always capture the strike ,lustre or eye appeal.The independent grade that a slab offers imo gives more confidence for buyers worldwide ,especially why we have covid restrictions on shows ,viewing at auction etc.

12 months ago i started to sell some ( the better ones ) of a slabbed collection and then continued over the next couple of months ,so the coins were sold to numerous buyers.Nearly everyone sold for the CGS value or in some instances quite a lot more and not one was returned.Coins regardless of year and type will all be different ,however ones that are slabbed in a really high grade will sell for a premium ,not just to investors but to people who realise they dont turn up all the time.I think looking and reading the forum we may become blinkered and not like them slabbed or the prices people may ask.The bigger picture is there are people buying them everyday ,although they may not post on here its not because they dont know how to grade themselves or know anything about coins but they want high grade coins independently graded.

As an example this 1926 ( i had posted the picture on here before ,so a good example ) was slabbed by NGC ,i broke it out and sent it to CGS ,although i did not tell CGS the grade or that it had been slabbed previously.I was confident after receiving the coin and seeing it in hand that it would achieve a high grade and at the time fitted in the collection i had put away.So the coin was independenly graded by two grading companies and sold straight away.  The difference was it was in a slab ,whereas the picture below shows the coin raw.

I will let you form your own opinion on grade and what it sold for ,but after selling a lot i do now know that buyers will pay much more for high grade or problem free coins if the slab confirms it ,its just that they dont post on here 🙂

[PWA 1967]

The picture would not fit on the other post .

Edited March 25, 2021 by PWA 1967

[Peckris 2]

I would say UNC with nearly full lustre. Selling price? I'd guess between £75 and £90. You'll probably say more, being in a slab!

It's probably worth pointing out that slabs didn't appear to affect prices realised in the recent DNW sale, not much anyway.

[PWA 1967]

Yes ,not every coin is going to have a premium just because its in plastic or else everyone would be slabbing them to sell.

I am on about ones graded really high MS65 or CGS 82/ 85 ,in other words bronze pennies that are BU and problem free.

[1949threepence]

This is my ordinary 1926, unslabbed and bought as a BIN from e bay seller Mason 8374 in December 2018, for just £30, which I thought was a bargain.