Halfpenny ID check

[Martinminerva]

Think it's a penny, Bob - bust of Victoria too big and too near linear circle at top to be a halfpenny. D'oh !!

[Zo Arms]

1 hour ago, Martinminerva said:

Think it's a penny, Bob - bust of Victoria too big and too near linear circle at top to be a halfpenny. D'oh !!

Of course it is.

Listed as a half penny but I was to busy looking at the finer detail to notice the elephant.

I'm back home tonight but yes. Definitely a penny. Thanks.

[absence of uniformity]

3 hours ago, DrLarry said:

In the past few months I have been working on the identification of an unusual anomaly in the 1865 half penny.  I bring it to your attention out of respect to the principle of the group to improve our knowledge.   In four examples collected since 2024 the colons are I assume then the die differs from any I have seen since I've been collecting.  The colons are not rounded but square/diamond shaped.  The closest similar colons exist on the Canadian bronze coins.  I'm sure someone else must have noticed this but I can find no other references to this.  I have it in coins which are EF to fine and in each case the arrangement of the colons is I think the same. 

I will post pictures if anyone is interested.  

Attached image is a 1861 HP.

Edited yesterday at 01:41 PM by absence of uniformity

[absence of uniformity]

I noticed on this halfpenny the features detailed in the attached image. I know its not B/R but I was still interested to identify the possible cause/reason.

[absence of uniformity]

4 minutes ago, DrLarry said:

Have you posted this in order to make a comment if so you seem to have not made one 

Im making you aware I have seen the same feature on a 1861 Halfpenny.

[Peckris 2]

As the square colons are both consistent and global, they're clearly not accidental. In the absence of any knowledge from forum members, Michael Gouby would be your next port of call.

[Coinery]

47 minutes ago, DrLarry said:

A strike to a round edge flatens tht normal colon.  But in the 65 the square is consistent.   

I don’t quite follow you? Doesn’t Richard also have a halfpenny site, have you taken a look on there?

[Coinery]

Interesting…as Peckris suggests, then!

I found Richard’s halfpenny site, I can’t see that it specifically mentions square/diamond colons? I would’ve expected to find it there if it was a known thing!

 https://halfpennyvarieties.wordpress.com/home-page-recreated/

[secret santa]

45 minutes ago, Coinery said:

I found Richard’s halfpenny site, I can’t see that it specifically mentions square/diamond colons? I would’ve expected to find it there if it was a known thing!

I'm no expert on halfpennies - I created the site in lockdown for something to do and would never suggest that it's an exhaustive source of info on halfpennies. I will add something about these colons once the position is clear.

[absence of uniformity]

They are out there I found this example of 1865 after looking at 3 coins.

[absence of uniformity]

4 minutes ago, DrLarry said:

Is this in your own collection? 

No i just started looking at coins online and the 3rd coin I looked at is this example.

https://dorsetcoincompany.co.uk/product/1865-bronze-halfpenny-victoria-young-head/

Edited yesterday at 06:27 PM by absence of uniformity

[absence of uniformity]

This 1865 is on ebay listed as square colons.

 

Edited yesterday at 06:32 PM by absence of uniformity

[absence of uniformity]

heres another not on ebay. Just found a third also. so not including your coins thats 3 in 10mins.

[absence of uniformity]

5 minutes ago, DrLarry said:

I suppose there will always be an initial flurry once the information is known.  The reason for discussing it is to try to estimate the numbers to work out the rarity 

A quick small random sample of 12 coins, and instantly find 3 examples, I think itis fair to assume the surviving population is actually quite high. A 25% frequency out of such a small sample suggests this wasnt a rare occurrence from a single pair of die imo which is not worth much 😉

[absence of uniformity]

10 minutes ago, DrLarry said:

I suspect time will tell.  Im not sure i would agree with you statistical analysis but who am I but a stupid scientist who collects bits of old metal.  Before today they were very rare because no one had ever noticed.  In my opinion having looked at about 1000 1865 pennies on ebay alone I have found 4. DID you purchase the ones you spotted? 

My analysis was purely based on numbers presented to me by the tiny short sample. I didnt purchase anything. I do actively look for documented/published types, and keep my eye out for anything out the ordinary although I dont collect halfpennies I have gathered a fair few of the overdates and found a few rarer pairings, I find the series alot more complicated than pennies and I dont get the same thrill. I think because the HP's lack the popularity of the Penny Im not so driven to invest the time to search.

[Ukstu]

Would the terminology be lozenge shaped? They look lozenge rather than square. 

Stu.

[absence of uniformity]

9 hours ago, DrLarry said:

Yes but sample analysis is a little more complicated in the real world.  As I  say time will tell  how many will show themselves at least people like you now know what to look for. Yes they are a lot more complicated and there are some extremely rare die pairings.  I think i have all the known varieties now including all the rare errors but my interest " expertise" is in the 1860 61 and 62 half pennies and more recently the 73 and 74s .  It has taken 10 years to collect them all.  Sure I have most of the pennies overdates and errors perhaps the only left to find is the VIGTORIA.  For me it's the discovery and the hunt and increasing the knowledge as the records are lost, successive generations of collectors add to the collective knowledge.   

The biggest problem going forward is that we must encourage new collectors and be enthusiastic about new knowledge.  It's an obligation imo. 

Another one 4/16 (Not the best picture) but can clearly see.

[absence of uniformity]

2 minutes ago, DrLarry said:

I'll perhaps image them under the microscope for you 

As sample size grows the numbers are coming down 4 of 36 now.

[absence of uniformity]

13 minutes ago, absence of uniformity said:

As sample size grows the numbers are coming down 4 of 36 now.

Im going to stop there at 4/40. 

Edited 11 hours ago by absence of uniformity

[DrLarry]

5 hours ago, absence of uniformity said:

Im going to stop there at 4/40. 

You seem to be a somewhat stupid man or women and seem limited in your understanding of the rules of statistical analysis.   It's not my job to teach you even the basics of modelling estimated numbers and I have little or no desire to so.  You illustrated perfectly what is fundamentally a failure of this forum.  Although I'm assuming you are new to It's values you may be an accomplished collector.  But you need to consider a broader purpose which is to encourage and enhance the enjoyment of a past time common to those here.   Unless the environment is welcoming and fulfilling one the joy of predecimal collecting for new visitors ir retuning ones will die. 

 

To me it matters not how you choose to approach your membership but being an ignorant stupid person only you have to live with.  Your methodology is as flawed as your personality.   

 

[absence of uniformity]

2 hours ago, DrLarry said:

You seem to be a somewhat stupid man or women and seem limited in your understanding of the rules of statistical analysis.   It's not my job to teach you even the basics of modelling estimated numbers and I have little or no desire to so.  You illustrated perfectly what is fundamentally a failure of this forum.  Although I'm assuming you are new to It's values you may be an accomplished collector.  But you need to consider a broader purpose which is to encourage and enhance the enjoyment of a past time common to those here.   Unless the environment is welcoming and fulfilling one the joy of predecimal collecting for new visitors ir retuning ones will die. 

 

To me it matters not how you choose to approach your membership but being an ignorant stupid person only you have to live with.  Your methodology is as flawed as your personality.   

 

Just butthurt you got called out and exposed for talking rubbish about looking at 1000 coins 🤣 It's fascinating to see you preach about the obligation to welcome new collectors in one breath, and then hurl insult because someone simply offered findings of 40 coins looked at 4 examples found.

[Coinery]

With initial findings of 10% I don’t think we can get too excited about scarcity, though! I reckon there’ll be more than enough to go round!