Halfpenny ID check

[Mr T]

Hard to say - I don't know of any study of die markers.

I do have in my notes that Dracott says it also exists as a circulated coin, but now I don't remember where that's from. If it's not in his July 2004 article, maybe his more recent article - November 2021 I think.

[Martinminerva]

On 2 September 2023 at 9:12 AM, Zo Arms said:

Reverse A* A# ( some use star, some hash) is the wider date spacing, most noticeable between the 6 and the 0.  On reverse A, the 6 and 0 are closer and the zero lower.

 Another identifier for reverse A*# is the lack of flag pole on the ship, which this has (or hasn't).

 

Not quite correct. Date spacings vary on both reverses and are not positive identifiers (see screenshot of Richard's site below) and I have actually seen three spacings - narrowish and properly wide as per Richard's pictures and even narrower as per your comparison one! (Your new find is the same as Richard's first pic - narrowish with 0 just to right of bead)

The true identifier is the lack of the extra line in the shield for A# (also in Richard's screenshot) as well as the flag pole thing.

But yes, yours is indeed a no-knot 1* plus A# - well found!

It is known on circulation specimens as well as proofs, but don't yet know how rare it is, but suspect quite rare indeed!

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Martinminerva

[Paddy]

Any thoughts on this? Vendor's picture, so please don't ask me for better ones. Described as 1739 Halfpenny, and size and reverse seem about right but this bust looks wrong to me.

Is it a contemporary counterfeit, a modern forgery, or just unusual deformation of the portrait?

[Martinminerva]

Would suggest either a contemporary counterfeit or significant movement within the die as it was struck - signs of double strike round the GEO especially. Does the reverse look odd at all? Picture of that might help...

[Paddy]

Here is the reverse:

[Diaconis]

that's a rum one Paddy, I agree with Martin, a contemporary forgery

[Paddy]

That was the conclusion I was coming to. Seemed unusual to see one dated so early - I usually associate the contemporary counterfeits with the late 18th century but I see some of the evasions are dated much earlier, so that makes sense.

 

[Zo Arms]

Great coin there Paddy. Are you thinking of purchasing?   

I think that this is the direction that I'm about to travel next. I love the history behind these coins.

Contemporary counterfeit halfpenny and farthing families. By Jeff Rock and Others.

A study of contemporary counterfeiters and the coins that can be attributed to each individual forger. Something that I've been meaning to purchase for a while now.

I've often wondered if this thread would develope to encompass other monarchs. Pleased to see that it has.

[Paddy]

I am considering it - depends how high it goes!

So far I have only gathered contemporary counterfeits in passing when they have come in with other coins, and all are in the 1770s. I have handled a few evasions, but always sold those on as the Americans tend to go crazy for them. The only list I have at the moment is at the back of the Withers  Token book One.

[Coinery]

I picked this up yesterday and know very little about the series…there looks to be a dot in HAL .F and also what appears to be a lustred indent in Victoria’s shaw? Are there micro-varieties that address this, or am I looking at post mint flaws? The dot could quite simply be corrosion/delamination, I haven’t seen it in-hand, yet?

I know similar HAL.F dot coins exist, so thought it worth asking.

Edited October 20, 2023 by Coinery

[Coinery]

I’m aware that other HAL.F coins exist, like this ‘67, so I’m curious!

Edited October 20, 2023 by Coinery

[DrLarry]

Could someone please point me to images of 1860 2C   I am getting a little confused by Freeman the images are not good.   Oh for a good book on half pennies !!!

[Bernie]

Freeman 264 Obv2 RevC

[Zo Arms]

3 hours ago, DrLarry said:

Could someone please point me to images of 1860 2C   I am getting a little confused by Freeman the images are not good.   Oh for a good book on half pennies !!!

There's some photos on page 4 or 5 of this thread Larry. Die crack through the A of Victoria.

Had a quick look to see if Dr Nicholson had one in his collection. Couldn't see one but what a collection that was. Don't think he shopped on eBay.  Good luck with your coins by the way.

[Zo Arms]

Looks like Bernie pipped me at the post.😁

[DrLarry]

On 11/16/2023 at 9:44 PM, Bernie said:

Freeman 264 Obv2 RevC

thanks so much Bernie for some reason I was getting very confused by Freemans description that is great thanks

[DrLarry]

On 11/16/2023 at 9:51 PM, Zo Arms said:

There's some photos on page 4 or 5 of this thread Larry. Die crack through the A of Victoria.

Had a quick look to see if Dr Nicholson had one in his collection. Couldn't see one but what a collection that was. Don't think he shopped on eBay.  Good luck with your coins by the way.

thanks so much the A is a good search option I will look at mine again.  Yes I sold the Bs over R's at the weekend I am very happy they have gone to a single collector and I think he is giving them a good home. I have reached the target for the double glazing so I am happy as 

[Martinminerva]

On 11/16/2023 at 9:51 PM, Zo Arms said:

Die crack through the A of Victoria.

Not a reliable indicator - my 1860 2+C has no hint of this die crack. So, either more than one pair of dies used (possible for an R17 scarcity) or the crack evolved over time (more likely), or more than one obverse 2 die used with the reverse C die (most likely).

[Bernie]

On 11/19/2023 at 11:49 AM, Martinminerva said:

Not a reliable indicator - my 1860 2+C has no hint of this die crack. So, either more than one pair of dies used (possible for an R17 scarcity) or the crack evolved over time (more likely), or more than one obverse 2 die used with the reverse C die (most likely).

I believe that you are correct. Another example with die faults and no crack through "A" Does this match yours?

[Martinminerva]

12 hours ago, Bernie said:

Another example with die faults and no crack through "A" Does this match yours?

I believe it might do, although the obverse die clash marks on mine are at a much earlier stage and barely started, but that would be consistent with evolving die damage. But it does suggest at least two obverse dies were used as mine has no die crack through the A and minimal die clash marks, whilst the two pictured above have very developed, but different, die damage.

[Zo Arms]

22 hours ago, Bernie said:

I believe that you are correct. Another example with die faults and no crack through "A" Does this match yours?

Do you remember the one that Jon posted. Had that Crown stamped into it. That matches the above coin. No A die crack and a huge crack under chin.

Page 18 in this thread.

[Bernie]

7 minutes ago, Zo Arms said:

Do you remember the one that Jon posted. Had that Crown stamped into it. That matches the above coin. No A die crack and a huge crack under chin.

Page 18 in this thread.

Yes, beautiful striking, such a shame about the crown.

[Zo Arms]

Seasonal greetings etc.....

eBay purchase last week, mainly because I thought there may be a P lurking under the F. Paired with a 7.

My current example is obvious, as the F has worn away, leaving a definite P. These better grade coins are open to dispute, as not immediately apparent.

At £26, I took a chance. Just wondering what others thought.

[Zo Arms]

Thought I'd cropped that. Not going to try an edit. I'm not that brave.😁.

[Martinminerva]

Just can't tell from a picture that small... Maybe/Possibly...(Fingers crossed) but there is some crud around some of the letters - eg. the A of HALF, and perhaps the "P" is just a bit of crud??

I take it you don't have it in hand yet. Only a bigger picture or it in hand would be decisive.