Halfpenny ID check

[Bruce]

5 minutes ago, jelida said:

Just been looking at the die letter halfpennies in LCA archives, the best ‘C’ is CGS45 so about VF, and has the same weakness of Britannia and lower shield, as does a CGS35. The A’s and B’s seem much crisper. The CGS 45 went for £2000 plus juice in 2013. I have no idea of the top grade out there. But value is not an issue for me, I very rarely dispose of anything.

Jerry

Thank you Jerry for sharing all above lovely halfpennies in your collection.  200% agree that you won't dispose it, coz taking it out and have a look is already a big enjoyment.  Cheers, and thanks again for your sharing.

[copper123]

It is a unique rarity and so great seeing it on here thanks

[copper123]

20 hours ago, jelida said:

Just been looking at the die letter halfpennies in LCA archives, the best ‘C’ is CGS45 so about VF, and has the same weakness of Britannia and lower shield, as does a CGS35. The A’s and B’s seem much crisper. The CGS 45 went for £2000 plus juice in 2013. I have no idea of the top grade out there. But value is not an issue for me, I very rarely dispose of anything. 

Jerry

Any chance being remembered in your will?!

[Peckris 2]

On 1/18/2022 at 6:48 PM, jelida said:

a HALP halfpenny, 7 + G from Ebay

No reflection on your particular example, but is the HALP a genuine variety? It always looks as though the upper and middle serifs of the F have met due to some die irregularity. To my eyes it looks nothing like the P in PENNY.

[Mr T]

On 1/19/2022 at 6:20 AM, jelida said:

I pondered this previously,  why the need to mark the engraved face of the die to monitor longevity, when the die could be marked elsewhere in greater detail ; they would have to have counted the number of actual coins struck per studied die either way. And the die marked coins seem to have been too few to  be practically monitored for ‘in circulation’ studies. Could partially worn regular dies be lettered or numbered to in some way monitor a later stage of their lives, or to  be brought back into use?  Perhaps with such a tiny mark the die would not even need annealing. Is there evidence out there?

Good point - has there ever been a true explanation of die numbers on the silver coins, or is all we have speculation?

[jelida]

3 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

No reflection on your particular example, but is the HALP a genuine variety? It always looks as though the upper and middle serifs of the F have met due to some die irregularity. To my eyes it looks nothing like the P in PENNY.

I have actually said much the same previously on this forum - many of this “variety “ look a lot like a die flaw - but I have subsequently also seen a number that appear quite crisp and very acceptable as an overstrike,  this is one, and I am now reasonably happy that it is a true variety. It is definitely more than a serif issue.

Jerry

[Peckris 2]

21 hours ago, jelida said:

I have actually said much the same previously on this forum - many of this “variety “ look a lot like a die flaw - but I have subsequently also seen a number that appear quite crisp and very acceptable as an overstrike,  this is one, and I am now reasonably happy that it is a true variety. It is definitely more than a serif issue.

Jerry

The main problem seems to be the left hand edge of each letter: on the supposed overstrike F/P, the serifs extend at exact right angles, like they do on the L. However, the P of penny has a regular curve extending from the bottom to the top on the left hand side; this makes the serifs rounded rather than extending straight at right angles.

[jelida]

7 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

The main problem seems to be the left hand edge of each letter: on the supposed overstrike F/P, the serifs extend at exact right angles, like they do on the L. However, the P of penny has a regular curve extending from the bottom to the top on the left hand side; this makes the serifs rounded rather than extending straight at right angles.

This would be true if the letter punch were held truly vertically, but not if the strike was made at a slight angle. Many of the overstruck letters and digits we see are partial.  
 

Jerry

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

The F over P from my F-277 (6 & g)

 

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

The F over P from my F-282 (7 & g)

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by Bronze & Copper Collector

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

On both of the previous overstrikes the underlying P is clear, albeit on the F-282, being more worn, it is less obvious.

I did have one or two dubious F/P's which were clearly flattened serifs upon closer examination. If I find them again or images, I'll post them for comparison.

 

[PWA 1967]

A lot of the over strikes on the wrong letter or number on the date seem to be were the wrong punch was used , as the person striking them forgot the die was in reverse.

This is exactly the same and the opposite letter is the P in penny ,so intitally struck with a P and then again with an F.This could cause a flaw or uneven letter as never going to be struck exactly the same as the first letter and can also look slightly different due to one letter / number being struck through the other.

Very similar to the 1858 F/B Copper penny ( B in Britanniar ) that is recorded.

Maybe 😀

Edited January 23, 2022 by PWA 1967

[Zo Arms]

I'd like a little help with this one please. I think I'm correct with reverse F but can't make my mind up on the obverse.

Not much to go on I'm afraid. 4 or 6 ?

Edited February 1, 2022 by Zo Arms
Additional text

[Zo Arms]

[mrbadexample]

Beyond my abilities I'm afraid. 

[Bernie]

1 hour ago, Zo Arms said:

4 + F, I believe

 

[Zo Arms]

Thanks Bernie.

Could I ask why you say 4?

Using London coins photos for Ob 4 / 6 and comparing with the legend on the RHS, I can make it either, depending on which photo I use.

I trust your judgement implicitly. Just curious.

[Bernie]

I've changed my mind Bob, I now believe that it's Obv 6 with rev F. The "O" of HONI SO does appear to show more of the "O" than obverse 4

These varieties are very difficult to identify in lower grades.

[Zo Arms]

2 hours ago, Bernie said:

I've changed my mind Bob, I now believe that it's Obv 6 with rev F. The "O" of HONI SO does appear to show more of the "O" than obverse 4

These varieties are very difficult to identify in lower grades.

Must admit that I was more swung towards a 6 but I haven't the experienced eyes to be certain on a worn coin such as this.

Any idea on the current population estimates? I'm sure it must have increased since Dracott's figure.

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

6 hours ago, Bernie said:

I've changed my mind Bob, I now believe that it's Obv 6 with rev F. The "O" of HONI SO does appear to show more of the "O" than obverse 4

These varieties are very difficult to identify in lower grades.

Hi Bernie,

I tend to concur with you, both for the reason you stated and the fact that I think I can see double incuse lines on one of the leaves, which would indicate obverse 6 as oppose to obverse 4.

Of course, as you state it is very difficult to determine from worn specimens, if at all especially from an image.

I'll upload images of my 6 & F for comparison.

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Bronze & Copper Collector

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

Reverse

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

Obverse

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

Slab

[Bernie]

15 hours ago, Bronze & Copper Collector said:

Hi Bernie,

I tend to concur with you, both for the reason you stated and the fact that I think I can see double incuse lines on one of the leaves, which would indicate obverse 6 as oppose to obverse 4.

Of course, as you state it is very difficult to determine from worn specimens, if at all especially from an image.

I'll upload images of my 6 & F for comparison.

 

Hello Gary & Bob,  Here is even more evidence that this is a 6+F !!!!!

Take a look at the die crack above R in REG.

Well done Bob, this will sit nicely with your 14+N !

[Zo Arms]

Thank you for your time on this Bernie. Conclusive proof. Is that your coin may I ask?

So, at least 3 known. Anyone else have one to add?