Silliness of the "Un-researched Purchase" Variety

[Madness]

I've found three coins on the website of "Michael Coins Ltd" that I'm interested in:

1787 Shilling with hearts EF?/EF   75 GBP

1787 Shilling - No dots over head EF+/-pAS   285 GBP

1787 Sixpence with hearts EF(+)/EF+   105 GBP

The prices seem to be fair based upon what I've seen.  Unfortunately, the images aren't the clearest.  I've sent Michael an email requesting higher resolution photographs.  Has anyone bought from him before?  Is his grading generally reliable?

Thanks as always

 

Edited August 7, 2018 by Madness

[Peckris 2]

8 hours ago, Madness said:

I've found three coins on the website of "Michael Coins Ltd" that I'm interested in:

1787 Shilling with hearts EF?/EF   75 GBP

1787 Shilling - No dots over head EF+/-pAS   285 GBP

1787 Sixpence with hearts EF(+)/EF+   105 GBP

The prices seem to be fair based upon what I've seen.  Unfortunately, the images aren't the clearest.  I've sent Michael an email requesting higher resolution photographs.  Has anyone bought from him before?  Is his grading generally reliable?

Thanks as always

That's Michael Gouby, a leading light in the dealing and numismatics world. He wrote one of "bibles" on pennies - The British Bronze Penny - and what he doesn't know about coins probably isn't worth knowing!

I think you can trust him!, and I'm pretty sure he has a cast-iron returns policy?

[Madness]

Thanks @Peckris 2.  Just what I wanted to hear!

[ozjohn]

Visited Michael's shop when I was in the UK while he was still trading there. He accepted a GBP 50.00 that was obsolete that I had saved from a previous trip to the UK. Not sure if that relevant  to his coins (which were fine) but shows he is a decent person to deal with. Also he confirmed that I has a Rev. B 1920 halfcrown when I emailed him some scans of it which again shows he is willing to help people.

Hope this helps.

Edited August 7, 2018 by ozjohn
typo

[Madness]

Michael is a scholar and a gentleman.  He got back to me about the coins very quickly providing an image of the without-stop shilling, a revision of the grade and a reduction of the price.  As there was a slight scuff on the obverse, it was downgraded to EF/EF+ and priced at 265 GBP.  Spink lists this variant at 300 GBP in EF.  

Decided to buy the shilling and have worked out a payment plan with Michael.

 

 

 

I believe that it uses exactly the same die combination of the specimen @Rob used to illustrate an "uncirculated" example.  The condition isn't quite as good, though.  

On an unrelated note, many of the examples of the 1787 shilling I've seen have a small raised dot in the centre of the obverse.  Is this an artifact of the manufacture process?  If so, what does it indicate about how these coins were made?

Edited August 7, 2018 by Madness

[Peckris 2]

9 hours ago, Madness said:

@RobOn an unrelated note, many of the examples of the 1787 shilling I've seen have a small raised dot in the centre of the obverse.  Is this an artifact of the manufacture process?  If so, what does it indicate about how these coins were made?

(Apologies for leaving Rob's name there - when editing the quoted post I didn't seem able to remove it).

You really want to track down that article in the BNJ (issue 74?) which is the most comprehensive piece on those coins that I've read.

[Madness]

5 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

(Apologies for leaving Rob's name there - when editing the quoted post I didn't seem able to remove it).

You really want to track down that article in the BNJ (issue 74?) which is the most comprehensive piece on those coins that I've read.

The Manville & Gaspar article?  If so, thanks for bringing it up, but I read it a couple of weeks ago.  Amazing piece of work and written in a very engaging style. 

Now if only I could find a Pingo Proof going for $100 on eBay...

[Madness]

The inkling of an idea in line with my obsessiveness and my inability to see the forest for all the tress: To collect as many varieties of the 1787 shillings and sixpences as I can reasonably afford.  There are many more than just the "semee-of-hearts" and "no-semee-of-hearts" varieties, so I should be kept busy for a while.

Is this a detour in my quest to acquire Proclamation Coins or a re-assessment of the direction my collecting will take?  Only time will tell.  It's sure going to be an interesting ride, though.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Madness

[Madness]

I'm thinking of selling my guinea on eBay as it's not really in a condition worth collecting.  This will then free up money to spend on other coins/books/resources.  Can you please take a look at how I plan to list it? 

Auction starting at $449 AUD (approx 260 GBP)

"1794 George III 'Spade' Guinea

Ex-mount, but neatly de-soldered.  Please examine the supplied images to determine grade. 

Delivered in a Lighthouse Quadrum Intercept square coin capsule and shipped with insurance."

Do you think I should mention that it has been polished or just leave that for the buyer to determine based on the images?  I don't want to mislead anyone in the same way that I was misled.  By they way, I'm still waiting for that partial refund from the seller.  

Edited August 9, 2018 by Madness

[Rob]

Ex mount, polished and flat for a common issue and an indifferent date will only ever be worth melt value. If you can get to within a couple percent of spot from a bullion dealer (or coin dealer), then I would go that route. ebay with an accurate description will likely only make that before fees & shipping costs.

I would wait for the refund before selling as it is the physical evidence.  Get the case opened if you haven't already done so.

[Madness]

🤢

🤮

I wonder if a jeweler would buy it... Up-cycle it again.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Madness

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

On 8/7/2018 at 5:49 AM, Peckris 2 said:

That's Michael Gouby, a leading light in the dealing and numismatics world. He wrote one of "bibles" on pennies - The British Bronze Penny - and what he doesn't know about coins probably isn't worth knowing!

I think you can trust him!, and I'm pretty sure he has a cast-iron returns policy?

You couldn't ask for a nicer, more knowledgeable ,  more reliable,  and fair dealer.....

I've never been disappointed with my purchases from him......

 

[secret santa]

4 hours ago, Bronze & Copper Collector said:

You couldn't ask for a nicer, more knowledgeable ,  more reliable,  and fair dealer.....

Totally honest and reliable.

[Madness]

I still haven't received the partial refund from the seller of the guinea.  Have just opened an eBay case against him, requesting that he either accept a return for a full refund, or provide a partial refund, in which case I'll retain ownership of the coin until I can sell it (probably for bullion value).

A sorry story of silliness, silliness of the "un-researched purchase" variety.  I intend to never let this happen again.  

[Rob]

40 minutes ago, Madness said:

I still haven't received the partial refund from the seller of the guinea.  Have just opened an eBay case against him, requesting that he either accept a return for a full refund, or provide a partial refund, in which case I'll retain ownership of the coin until I can sell it (probably for bullion value).

A sorry story of silliness, silliness of the "un-researched purchase" variety.  I intend to never let this happen again.  

Just go for a full refund and let him have the hassle of disposing of it. You aren't the only one on a steep learning curve.

[Madness]

Thanks Rob, but I quickly received the $200 refund and accepted it before having read your suggestion.  In any case, I've listed the coin on eBay:

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/705-53470-19255-0/1?icep_ff3=2&pub=5575378759&campid=5338273189&customid=&icep_item=263875399258&ipn=psmain&icep_vectorid=229515&kwid=902099&mtid=824&kw=lg&toolid=11111

Do you think what I've written is fair?

[Peckris 2]

8 hours ago, Madness said:

Thanks Rob, but I quickly received the $200 refund and accepted it before having read your suggestion.  In any case, I've listed the coin on eBay:

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/705-53470-19255-0/1?icep_ff3=2&pub=5575378759&campid=5338273189&customid=&icep_item=263875399258&ipn=psmain&icep_vectorid=229515&kwid=902099&mtid=824&kw=lg&toolid=11111

Do you think what I've written is fair?

Yes, absolutely. You've let the bidder decide about grade and you've mentioned that it was mounted. And you've had a bid! Would that and the $200 recover your original cost?

[Madness]

7 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

Yes, absolutely. You've let the bidder decide about grade and you've mentioned that it was mounted. And you've had a bid! Would that and the $200 recover your original cost?

Thanks Chris. 

I need to sell the coin for $600 AUD in order to break even.  I'm not optimistic that this will happen, but I'm happy that it's not going to be more than a $150 learning experience.  

[Peckris 2]

3 minutes ago, Madness said:

Thanks Chris. 

I need to sell the coin for $600 AUD in order to break even.  I'm not optimistic that this will happen, but I'm happy that it's not going to be more than a $150 learning experience.  

Then you should be very happy - the sole bidder is at $449 A$  (or does your $600 not include the $200 refund?)

Edited August 13, 2018 by Peckris 2

[Madness]

9 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

Then you should be very happy - the sole bidder is at $449 A$  (or does your $600 not include the $200 refund?)

Purchase price = $750

If I sell at $600 I'll clear a bit under $550 after fees and costs.  Add this to the $200 refund and I'd almost make my money back.

I'm not too upset: I've made some much more expensive mistakes than this.  Take the time I was obssessed by vacuum tube (valve) audio amplifiers.  Spent thousands in bits of glass that lit up when you ran electricity through them.  They made great music, but the difference in sound produced by different tube variations and types was mostly only subtle.  Also got into building and modifying tube amps.  Do you know how much it's possible to spend on boutique capacitors?  

You live and learn.  I'm far less impulsive these days than I was five or ten years ago.  I also have far less money!

Edited August 13, 2018 by Madness

[DrLarry]

1 hour ago, Madness said:

Purchase price = $750

If I sell at $600 I'll clear a bit under $550 after fees and costs.  Add this to the $200 refund and I'd almost make my money back.

I'm not too upset: I've made some much more expensive mistakes than this.  Take the time I was obssessed by vacuum tube (valve) audio amplifiers.  Spent thousands in bits of glass that lit up when you ran electricity through them.  They made great music, but the difference in sound produced by different tube variations and types was mostly only subtle.  Also got into building and modifying tube amps.  Do you know how much it's possible to spend on boutique capacitors?  

You live and learn.  I'm far less impulsive these days than I was five or ten years ago.  I also have far less money!

Madness make sure you look very carefully around the top and edge and see if it has not been removed from a clasp, the last thing you need s it coming back and then losing on the return postage...It is very easy on ebay to initiate a return on the grounds of "not as described" ....

[DrLarry]

On 8/9/2018 at 2:59 AM, Madness said:

I'm thinking of selling my guinea on eBay as it's not really in a condition worth collecting.  This will then free up money to spend on other coins/books/resources.  Can you please take a look at how I plan to list it? 

Auction starting at $449 AUD (approx 260 GBP)

"1794 George III 'Spade' Guinea

Ex-mount, but neatly de-soldered.  Please examine the supplied images to determine grade. 

Delivered in a Lighthouse Quadrum Intercept square coin capsule and shipped with insurance."

Do you think I should mention that it has been polished or just leave that for the buyer to determine based on the images?  I don't want to mislead anyone in the same way that I was misled.  By they way, I'm still waiting for that partial refund from the seller.  

Oh I see you have done sorry did not read fully your previous thread 

[DrLarry]

Oh well t is good to know that you confirmed it had been on a mount, it is always hard with Gold you have to be careful 

[DrLarry]

A word of caution re: your refund ....I know you said the buyer offered your $200 was that an official offer of a refund or just a casual chat?  Be careful that if this goes to resolution for an item not as described you may be expected to return it to get any refund and then all by the resolution team.  If you sell it then you will not be able to return it and then you will end up losing the $200 offered casually.  I personally think EBay are quite good with these things. 

Edited August 13, 2018 by DrLarry

[Madness]

Thanks for looking out for me @DrLarry.  Refund is official with payment pending in PayPal.  Waited for this to happen before listing the coin.