Will we ever become a cashless society?

[Diaconis]

I rue the day we become a totally cashless society. It's bad enough as it is imo (nuff said). With disbelief, I witnessed first hand the distressing effects on a couple of Greek friends with whom I was working in the US in 2016. The financial crisis hit home and from one day to the other they had no access to funds, their bank accounts were frozen and their credit cards were blocked. Technically, 'someone' decided to  render them penniless overnight. Luckily for them they were not stuck in Greece at the time where no-one could buy anything without cash.

I see it as relinquishing power to someone who has no regard for who I am, in which situation I am and views me purely as a cow to milk. 'They' would have the power to sentence me to a life of penury without recourse.  They could incite chaos and anarchy at the push of a button so to speak. No thanks. With cash in pocket we have the power to make at least some decisions and choices if the etherial pot of electronic money ever decides to go pop again. Call me paranoid, a Luddite, or more appropriately here maybe, a Ramage if you will, but I honestly believe that it should be resisted at all cost.

That said, and in answer to 1949threepence thread question, Yes, I think we probably will.

[1949threepence]

40 minutes ago, Diaconis said:

I rue the day we become a totally cashless society. It's bad enough as it is imo (nuff said). With disbelief, I witnessed first hand the distressing effects on a couple of Greek friends with whom I was working in the US in 2016. The financial crisis hit home and from one day to the other they had no access to funds, their bank accounts were frozen and their credit cards were blocked. Technically, 'someone' decided to  render them penniless overnight. Luckily for them they were not stuck in Greece at the time where no-one could buy anything without cash.

I see it as relinquishing power to someone who has no regard for who I am, in which situation I am and views me purely as a cow to milk. 'They' would have the power to sentence me to a life of penury without recourse.  They could incite chaos and anarchy at the push of a button so to speak. No thanks. With cash in pocket we have the power to make at least some decisions and choices if the etherial pot of electronic money ever decides to go pop again. Call me paranoid, a Luddite, or more appropriately here maybe, a Ramage if you will, but I honestly believe that it should be resisted at all cost.

That said, and in answer to 1949threepence thread question, Yes, I think we probably will.

Hear, hear, hear. Very well said Diaconis.  

[1949threepence]

Excellent article by the editor, in the June 2020 edition of "Coin News" about this issue.

It appears that the anti cash brigade are attempting to accelerate its demise by using the excuse of cash being a potentially unhealthy carrier of Covid 19.

Although most people and stores are still accepting cash because they would lose a certain percentage of trade if they didn't, and at the moment they need every penny they can get (no pun intended). As the florist who was interviewed last night said "if I had a £50 bouquet and someone offered me a £50 note, of course I'm going to accept it".  

 

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

On 6/21/2018 at 5:31 PM, Diaconis said:

I rue the day we become a totally cashless society. It's bad enough as it is imo (nuff said). With disbelief, I witnessed first hand the distressing effects on a couple of Greek friends with whom I was working in the US in 2016. The financial crisis hit home and from one day to the other they had no access to funds, their bank accounts were frozen and their credit cards were blocked. Technically, 'someone' decided to  render them penniless overnight. Luckily for them they were not stuck in Greece at the time where no-one could buy anything without cash.

I see it as relinquishing power to someone who has no regard for who I am, in which situation I am and views me purely as a cow to milk. 'They' would have the power to sentence me to a life of penury without recourse.  They could incite chaos and anarchy at the push of a button so to speak. No thanks. With cash in pocket we have the power to make at least some decisions and choices if the etherial pot of electronic money ever decides to go pop again. Call me paranoid, a Luddite, or more appropriately here maybe, a Ramage if you will, but I honestly believe that it should be resisted at all cost.

That said, and in answer to 1949threepence thread question, Yes, I think we probably will.

A well articulated and well thought response.

[1949threepence]

Not for ideal reasons, but it looks as though the use of cash in the form of notes and coins, is rapidly increasing after a long decline, accelerated somewhat during covid.

Many people are now turning back to cash as a means of helping them budget effectively.

link to article
 

Quote

 

extract from article

People are going back to cash to keep tighter control on their spending as living costs soar, according to new research by the Post Office.

Post offices handled £801m in personal cash withdrawals in July, the most since records began five years ago.

That's up more than 20% from a year earlier.

Natalie Ceeney, chair of the Cash Action Group, said it showed people are "literally counting the pennies" as they grapple with rising prices.

"It's absolutely because of the cost of living crisis," said Ms Ceeney, who chaired the government's independent Access to Cash review.

"People will be taking out cash and physically putting it into pots, saying 'this is what I have for bills, this is what I have for food, and this is what's left'."

 

 

[secret santa]

Hooray - that's really cheered me up.

[1949threepence]

Had to laugh yesterday afternoon. A local coffee shop which I sometimes frequent to have a cappucino, became card only recently, but yesterday when I went in, the machine had gone wrong and wasn't operating. So they were forced to accept cash (fortunately had a spare tenner), and give IOU notes to the customers in place of change.

It was either that or an empty shop.

  

[Sword]

I unexpectedly went to B&Q today and realised I didn't have my wallet. I had a £20 note and thankfully there was still a till that accepts cash.

Might be I use cash once a week these days.

[1949threepence]

1 hour ago, Sword said:

I unexpectedly went to B&Q today and realised I didn't have my wallet. I had a £20 note and thankfully there was still a till that accepts cash.

Might be I use cash once a week these days.

I always hold some cash as the gardener and other tradesmen much prefer it. 

 

[Sword]

4 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

I always hold some cash as the gardener and other tradesmen much prefer it. 

 

I prefer paying takeaway deliveries with cash as I don't like small businesses using my card retails remotely.

[TomGoodheart]

Shop I work in, we don't get many cash sales. Perhaps two or three a week. I think people still like to give cash for birthdays and the like, and of course there are those that trade mostly in it, so we still keep a float. Essential if we have to give refunds things that were bought with cash. And also for any of our petty cash (mostly postage costs and the window cleaner) needs.

Personally I always keep about £10 on me, usually in case I want an drink or ice cream when I'm out running. The plastic notes are brilliant. I no longer have to worry I'll find a soggy mess in the laundry if I forget to check my pockets!

So while the majority of people use cards or their phones/watches to pay contactlessly, I can't see cash disappearing completely any time soon.

[Peckris 2]

On 7/2/2023 at 7:16 PM, 1949threepence said:

Had to laugh yesterday afternoon. A local coffee shop which I sometimes frequent to have a cappucino, became card only recently, but yesterday when I went in, the machine had gone wrong and wasn't operating. So they were forced to accept cash (fortunately had a spare tenner), and give IOU notes to the customers in place of change.

It was either that or an empty shop.

 

The local Cote Brasserie only accepts card payments and have done ever since after the first lockdown. I'm hoping I enoy a good meal there and then their card machine breaks down! I don't carry cash ...

 

On 7/2/2023 at 9:43 PM, Sword said:

I unexpectedly went to B&Q today and realised I didn't have my wallet. I had a £20 note and thankfully there was still a till that accepts cash.

Might be I use cash once a week these days.

 

I did once unexpectedly go to B&Q. I looked around, wondered where I was for several minutes, then went up to the counter and asked for a packet of frozen peas. And four candles...

[1949threepence]

16 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

 

The local Cote Brasserie only accepts card payments and have done ever since after the first lockdown. I'm hoping I enoy a good meal there and then their card machine breaks down! I don't carry cash ...

 

 

I did once unexpectedly go to B&Q. I looked around, wondered where I was for several minutes, then went up to the counter and asked for a packet of frozen peas. And four candles...

Don't you mean fork handles? 

[Sword]

7 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

 

The local Cote Brasserie only accepts card payments and have done ever since after the first lockdown. I'm hoping I enoy a good meal there and then their card machine breaks down! I don't carry cash ....

I imagine they only need to manually write down your card details and you will still be charged later.

[azda]

On 6/15/2018 at 9:41 PM, 1949threepence said:

On a recent trip to Kew Gardens, I was appalled to find that the cafeteria there, would not accept cash, so I had to use my contactless card. Also, bus companies up and down the country won't accept cash either. Moreover, there are young people now who claim they never carry cash, and just use cards. Although this must be difficult with smaller items, as a number of places still do not hold contactless technology. You'd look mighty strange getting your debit card out to pay for a bag of crisps. Also, how do you contribute to office collections with a debit or credit card?

All that said, cash does remain very popular and billions of transactions are still carried out each year using cash. I believe it remains the most popular monetary transaction medium. Especially abroad, where in many countries it is still actively preferred to cards.

I am filled with horror at the thought of cash no longer being available, as this negates any chance of anonymity when buying an article, or paying someone for any kind of service, such as tradesmen who frequently offer a discount for cash in hand.

I can't see us going cashless for some time yet, if ever. Although I am sure there are those who would like to see this for their own ends.

What do others think about this question? 

       

The whole point of a cashless society IS to make sure you’re NOT anonymous. Govts will control your bank account and if they don’t like what you’re buying then you won’t be able to pay for it, Legrade said as much when asked about going digital.

[azda]

https://www.gbnews.com/money/money-news-cash-bank-england-digital-currency-latest

[1949threepence]

1 hour ago, azda said:

https://www.gbnews.com/money/money-news-cash-bank-england-digital-currency-latest

GB News have got a petition to save cash if anybody's interested in signing it.

https://www.gbnews.com/cash

[Peckris 2]

23 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

Don't you mean fork handles? 

Just mind your peas and cues...

[1949threepence]

What happens when civil society breaks down, even just a bit, as in Rhodes. Nothing electronic works and cards can't be used, so they return to cash. A lot of the ATM's don't work either. So withdrawals in cash from a bank branch are necessary. 

 

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by 1949threepence

[Diaconis]

6 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

What happens when civil society breaks down, even just a bit, as in Rhodes. Nothing electronic works and cards can't be used, so they return to cash. A lot of the ATM's don't work either. So withdrawals in cash from a bank branch are necessary. 

 

 

Anarchy?

[1949threepence]

2 hours ago, Diaconis said:

Anarchy?

Not exactly anarchy at that early stage, but you need an alternative to electronic payments in case they break down. Notes and coins are infallible. 

[Peckris 2]

3 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

Not exactly anarchy at that early stage, but you need an alternative to electronic payments in case they break down. Notes and coins are infallible. 

"Excuse me, sir, did you print this yourself by any chance? I think you'd better come down the station to help us with our enquiries..."

[1949threepence]

6 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

"Excuse me, sir, did you print this yourself by any chance? I think you'd better come down the station to help us with our enquiries..."

Realistically that only happens in George Floyd territory, where, rather than such polite and discreet questioning, he had some psychotic raving nutjob of a cop screaming obscenities and pointing a gun in his face, based on the assertion of a junior sales assistant, and he subsequently lost his life based on that - murdered.

Of course, anybody with half a brain would first establish that the note was a fake, and even if it was, then entertain the strong probability that it was previously passed on in good faith to whoever subsequently decided to spend it, also in good faith (just as we did for many years with the numerous fake £1 coins) - as opposed to assuming that he's got a printing press in his back room. Not forgetting the actual hard evidence that the specific note in question was passed as payment by George, and not by another customer.  

I'd venture to say that in Rhodes at the moment, checking the actual validity of notes passed, will not be high on their list of priorities.

[Rob]

At today's Huddersfield fair, I had a conversation with the guy next to me on this very topic. He made the very valid point that every time you pay for a £50 purchase with cash, the recipient has £50 to spend on something else. If he uses that cash in the same manner, the next recipient will also have £50 spend. But if you use electronic payments the bank takes 2 or 3%. So a £50 transaction at 3% leaves the recipient with only £48.50 to spend. When he spends that sum electronically on a subsequent purchase, the recipient only has £47.04 to spend. That reduces to £45.63 for the next one etc. Within 8 transactions, the banking system has extracted 20% of the original value. If the transaction is funded to £50 every time, it would take over 20% by the fourth transaction. If cash was used, the full £50 would be available ad infinitum to all except the banking system. The banks might not like cash, but there is no need to involve them if cash is used in person to person transactions, or at least within the local area. Purchasing power for the masses is actually enhanced by not using cards (debit or credit), because there is no mechanism to skim off the fees. Yes there is a case for having banks for remote transactions, but not for putting every transaction through their system when cash would be more cost effective. Whilst there is always a security risk in carrying large amounts of cash, the benefits of using it are not insignificant.

The modern view of things only costing a fiver for some fee that is avoidable with a bit of thought and planning is part of the wealth problem. Book a hotel through a booking site and you pay £5 more than you would if you call up the hotel and book it yourself. It's not rocket science. Rhetorical question, but why do people buy things off ebay from me with at least a 15% surcharge to the cost of the item on the website when they have been pointed in the direction of the latter previously? Sure it involves electronic transfer that has a cost to the vendor, but they are also saying please fleece me as the buyer for 15% more. People really do not think.

The solution is in all our hands. 

[copper123]

Even the oldest people are now paying for lots of small purchaces on contactless admittedly its really popular but few places are refusing cash as well I am pretty sure it will take another five years or so for major refusals of cash to become the norm