Is the bottom falling out of the Penny market ?

[secret santa]

In June 2015 a poorish 1882 F112 (no H) penny sold at London Coin auction for £2808. Yesterday it sold again at DNW for only £521.

Is this the end for bronze and copper ?

[PWA 1967]

I dont think there is as many penny collectors as we think for the varieties and does not seem many new collectors coming on the forum or from what i am told going to shows.

Same auction a scabby 1860 T for £100  that was over £500 a few years ago at LCA ,more turn up and people have one prices come down IMO.

I think the F32 went for about £80 i realise it wasnt very good but again i would think a few years ago it would of gone for more than that.

Edited June 13, 2018 by PWA 1967

[Peckris]

[secret santa]

Which variety is this one ?

[Unwilling Numismatist]

I think that's a reference to thrupenny bits, but it might be a cryptic clue instead.

 

My F164A went for 120, several years ago (2011) these were well up at 500+, so the market is either shrinking or technology is allowing people to see things more clearly, thus meaning more are being found.

I wouldn't go flogging all your penny collections just yet, fearing they'll be worthless - so many people these days are doing the coin-hunt and collecting 50ps, £2 etc that even if 3% go on to other coins it should be enough to keep the hobby very much alive and well.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Unwilling Numismatist
typing = my least best superpower.

[Coppers]

Curiously, that 1882 had an estimate £ 100 - £150.

 

 

[DaveG38]

57 minutes ago, secret santa said:

Which variety is this one ?

The Penny Irving type from the 1970s, by the looks of it.

[Unwilling Numismatist]

I was definitely too young to appreciate that type at the time.

[DaveG38]

16 minutes ago, Unwilling Numismatist said:

I was definitely too young to appreciate that type at the time.

You definitely missed out. There's no comparison between the 1960s/70s gilrs and today's lot.

[Rob]

5 minutes ago, DaveG38 said:

You definitely missed out. There's no comparison between the 1960s/70s gilrs and today's lot.

I'm not sure evolution works that quickly, more a case of them not being interested in old gits like you and me (with our expectations massaged down accordingly).

 

[jelida]

2 hours ago, secret santa said:

In June 2015 a poorish 1882 F112 (no H) penny sold at London Coin auction for £2808. Yesterday it sold again at DNW for only £521.

Is this the end for bronze and copper ?

I think the market is more polarised, people simply don't want to live with such a poor coin in their collection but had it been in fine or better it would have soared. And it was bought well over the odds previously. And LCA does seem to be the place to sell pennies, for some reason. 

Jerry

[1949threepence]

3 hours ago, secret santa said:

In June 2015 a poorish 1882 F112 (no H) penny sold at London Coin auction for £2808. Yesterday it sold again at DNW for only £521.

Is this the end for bronze and copper ?

I made a bid on that F112, and still lost out.

Interestingly, the penny was part of John Stephenson's unsolds from that PFK auction last year, which he placed with DNW along with the rest of his unsolds, including some halfcrowns. I think most of them shifted this time, whereas the PFK was a disaster from John's point of view. I believe it was John's late Father who paid over £2k for the 1882 no H. 

I know all this because I had previously asked John to alert me when the remainder were going to be auctioned, and he did so a couple of weeks ago, highlighting the very low estimates and that the 1882 had been originally bought for over £2k.

I also missed on what was quite a decent F38 - bid £500, but went for £550. If I hadn't had to attend yet another useless meeting at work, I could have been on my PC bidding higher. The F38 continues to elude me as it has done for the last several years. 

As for whether the penny market is dipping, really too difficult to tell. I don't really think so - more likely that many aren't wiling to shell out on poor, albeit very rare varieties. Although the step up from fair/poor to fine seems to make a very significant difference.   

 

     

[1949threepence]

2 hours ago, Peckris said:

Choice BU. Very desirable. 

[VickySilver]

Is there an unbarred type of that specimen?

[PWA 1967]

40 minutes ago, 1949threepence said:

I made a bid on that F112, and still lost out.

Interestingly, the penny was part of John Stephenson's unsolds from that PFK auction last year, which he placed with DNW along with the rest of his unsolds, including some halfcrowns. I think most of them shifted this time, whereas the PFK was a disaster from John's point of view. I believe it was John's late Father who paid over £2k for the 1882 no H. 

I know all this because I had previously asked John to alert me when the remainder were going to be auctioned, and he did so a couple of weeks ago, highlighting the very low estimates and that the 1882 had been originally bought for over £2k.

I also missed on what was quite a decent F38 - bid £500, but went for £550. If I hadn't had to attend yet another useless meeting at work, I could have been on my PC bidding higher. The F38 continues to elude me as it has done for the last several years. 

As for whether the penny market is dipping, really too difficult to tell. I don't really think so - more likely that many aren't wiling to shell out on poor, albeit very rare varieties. Although the step up from fair/poor to fine seems to make a very significant difference.   

 

     

Thanks Mike as i did wonder who the collection was being sold by ,you dont see many scarce ones all at once 

[Peckris]

3 hours ago, DaveG38 said:

The Penny Irving type from the 1970s, by the looks of it.

Spot on. Penny's bottom may be dropping out of her knickers there... 

[DaveG38]

3 hours ago, Rob said:

I'm not sure evolution works that quickly, more a case of them not being interested in old gits like you and me (with our expectations massaged down accordingly).

 

I have no illusions about my non-attractability so far as women go, so I have no expectations that anybody of any age would be interested in me. However, as a matter of observation, rather than evolution, it seems to me that there are far too many flabby bodied and slabby faced young women today than there ever were back then. Hence my comment about girls in the 1960s and 70s.

[pokal02]

DNW was a bit strange altogether yesterday - I was watching the Tudor hammered silver, which was mostly fair to middling grade-wise - some was going well under estimate and some well over - got the lot I wanted though. 

[VickySilver]

I didn't get those proof sets - the 1893 went for 55k plus commission!

[Rob]

I won a few lots, but had to let the one I really wanted go when the price got a bit high. Doubtless I'll be proved wrong for stopping in the future. It may have gone to a forum member.

This is the coin I wanted, having been on the list ever since I knew where it was. It went through the Circular at £350 in Sept 1998. Worcester 3d obverse paired with a 2d reverse.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Rob

[Nonmortuus]

What did it go for in the end Rob? I struggled to watch any of the auction due to work.

[Rob]

Went for 1300 hammer. I was having difficulty justifying spending more than 1500 on it given it isn't better than good fine, even if the coin is unique. I was against a telephone bidder.

[Nonmortuus]

Sorry to hear you did not get it. I was watching a few but could not get on to bid.

[Rob]

Not to worry. Plenty more exciting things to come from the collection. JH's collection was mostly not top grade, but numismatically speaking, a treasure chest, carefully built up over 75 years.

[secret santa]

Uncirculated ? I very much doubt it !!!!!!