Penny Acquisition of the week

[secret santa]

Managed, at last, to get a VIGTORIA:

[alfnail]

Was it on ebay Richard? 

[secret santa]

Yes, ended on Wednesday.

[copper123]

[Bruce]

12 hours ago, secret santa said:

Managed, at last, to get a VIGTORIA:

Congratulations Richard 👍

[secret santa]

1 hour ago, DrLarry said:

Of course it may be the angle and a wear factor but it is interesting that the G of DG looks more like a C ...in the hand it that the case?

Just wear or damage. Definitely a G.

[1949threepence]

21 hours ago, copper123 said:

 

You were saying........😼 

[Coinery]

I have to say, even if this IS the VIG variety, which I’m sure it is, I don’t believe it’s a coin that was minted having used the G of the other Gs present on the obverse.

[blakeyboy]

2 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

You were saying........😼 

Speechless...?

I am too - didn't even spot it!

[secret santa]

3 hours ago, Coinery said:

I don’t believe it’s a coin that was minted having used the G of the other Gs present on the obverse.

The working die wouldn't have been created with a G in VICTORIA and therefore it must have been caused by manual intervention. London Coins note that the rogue "G" is of a slightly different format to the other proper "G"s (in D:G: and REG) and Michael Gouby suggests that it might have been caused accidentally through an intended die repair to the "G" of REG being carried out by a repairer forgetting that a "G" on the right of the incuse die will actually affect the left side of the struck coin, and inadvertently "repairing" with a "G" punch the "C" of VICTORIA instead which is on the right side of the die diametrically opposite the "G" of REG.

Anyway, the error must have been spotted quite quickly given the restricted numbers of affected coins that reached circulation, as demonstrated by the fact that only 10 surviving examples have so far been recorded out of huge numbers of 1862 pennies.

[Coinery]

2 minutes ago, secret santa said:

The working die wouldn't have been created with a G in VICTORIA and therefore it must have been caused by manual intervention. London Coins note that the rogue "G" is of a slightly different format to the other proper "G"s (in D:G: and REG) and Michael Gouby suggests that it might have been caused accidentally through an intended die repair to the "G" of REG being carried out by a repairer forgetting that a "G" on the right of the incuse die will actually affect the left side of the struck coin, and inadvertently "repairing" with a "G" punch the "C" of VICTORIA instead which is on the right side of the die diametrically opposite the "G" of REG.

Anyway, the error must have been spotted quite quickly given the restricted numbers of affected coins that reached circulation, as demonstrated by the fact that only 10 surviving examples have so far been recorded out of huge numbers of 1862 pennies.

A very interesting and plausible explanation.

I’m sure there’s much more to the story, however, given the straight sides of the tail of the ‘usual’ G and the very different curved sides in the tail of the G in Victoria.

Only ten known surviving examples? You must be absolutely delighted…what an acquisition for a penny collector! Well done, Sir!

[blakeyboy]

I have many examples of strange things going on in this area, with the die suffering damage,

causing extra dots on the reverse, in this exact area.

[jelida]

9 hours ago, Coinery said:

 

I’m sure there’s much more to the story, however, given the straight sides of the tail of the ‘usual’ G and the very different curved sides in the tail of the G in Victoria.

 

In fact the tail if the ‘G’ is very variable in these early bronze pennies, many in my collection have these curved sides and some the more rectangular,  but whether due to die wear or a formal font variation I don’t know. Perhaps proof coins, if from unworn dies, might clarify. Clearly the  ‘G’ repair punch used here had the curved sides, and thus differing fonts on one coin is quite possible.

Oh, and congrats on joining the VIGTORIA  club, Richard. One of my favourite errors.

Jerry

[secret santa]

11 hours ago, Coinery said:

given the straight sides of the tail of the ‘usual’ G

On my proof and circulation 1862 pennies, the usual G is very definitely curved.

[Coinery]

3 hours ago, secret santa said:

On my proof and circulation 1862 pennies, the usual G is very definitely curved.

Absolutely, yes, I can see that

For the record, though, ‘usual’ was my lazy way of referring to the other Gs on the coin.

A phenomenal find, no doubt about it!

[secret santa]

2 hours ago, Coinery said:

For the record, though, ‘usual’ was my lazy way of referring to the other Gs on the coin.

Yes, I understood that and was just demonstrating that they're curved on my examples.😉

[secret santa]

On 1/22/2023 at 10:05 AM, secret santa said:

On my proof and circulation 1862 pennies, the usual G is very definitely curved.

Further to the above, I have a couple of 1861 pennies (F29 & F33) where the G of D:G: has been badly repaired (rotated) with both  a "curved" and a "straighter" G punch so either of these could have been used to produce the VIGTORIA error.

[secret santa]

I fear we shall never know.

[terrysoldpennies]

I would have thought that in those days the letter repair punches would have been hand made , and therefore every one would be very slightly different , also when the working dies were repaired the depth of the strike would vary in accordance with how hard the punch was struck. 

[Bruce]

Just received this penny yesterday.  Although I'm not a fan of slabbed coin n no idea why it's graded as AU, I'm still happy to secure this 1858 penny.

[Bruce]

[PWA 1967]

Well done ,i assume you know what variety it is and yes daft American grading 😀

Edited February 1, 2023 by PWA 1967

[Bruce]

1 hour ago, PWA 1967 said:

Well done ,i assume you know what variety it is and yes daft American grading 😀

Ha yes, american grading, everything is AU😂.  Large rose small date (hope correct), pity that there are dirt on it, however if it is not imperfect, i think it will be out of my reach.

Edited February 1, 2023 by Bruce

[secret santa]

Well done - I spotted that in a Spink auction recently.

[1949threepence]

2 hours ago, Bruce said:

Ha yes, american grading, everything is AU😂.  Large rose small date (hope correct), pity that there are dirt on it, however if it is not imperfect, i think it will be out of my reach.

Neat capture Bruce.