seuk

Shilling pages are now updated Total is now 124 different obverses and 136 reverses.

Triskele and Swastika on a Danish coin from the time of Erik Menved (1286-1319)

Thanks - of course; its a penny with the rim cut off It does seem like there's something hiding under the bronze at the Irish shield. However the rim appears silvered here and there and there's some silvering below the bust on obverse. Perhaps it was made for conjuring, for fun or some kind of jewelry training?

My first guess was; the obverse of a regular half penny joined with a cast florin reverse However the half penny is too small. So it must be a colonial coin - but which?

Thanks - I've just ordered a copy.

Thanks for the thought! However I don't really collect later counterfeits than George IV/William IV so perhaps if you could find an Edward VII specialist he'll have better use for it.

As you may have seen I'm doing a similar study on the counterfeit George III silver coins. I feel its easier on the eye to have a neutral background. Also I prefer not to cut the details out as there's a risk of removing part of the design.

Yes - clearly a separate die variation. And a strange one too. A double letter like the Q or the double dot in right side of garter is easily explained as an attempt to strengthen weakly engraved parts of the design. But to place a dot inside the O's seems out of place - More like a secret mark or someone who didn't knew what he was doing

Just received this not so nice copy - cost me £18+shipping which is 2 or 3 times normal price for a fair/fine example so someone else knew about it... Beside the dots in the O's the die also has a double dot between Y and PENSE ...and talking about 1820 shillings - this may be of interest to you Debbie

Nice one Not sure - but it looks like cast and plated - I got a similar sheffield plated BoE dollar, very professionally done unlike most cast counterfeits.

Would especially be interested in pictures/scans of the Irish 6/- and BoE Dollars. Lost this a few days ago - wonder if the winner knew he was buying a counterfeit...not very clear in description. Are you starting a collection Chris? I have lots of duplicates for trade!!

Anyone who has a copy of R. Dalton: The silver token coinage 1811-1812 - for sale?

These are described in an earlier thread They come in both low and high grade copies however all seems to have the reverse turned 180 degrees.

Toy coin perhaps? http://www.tokensociety.org.uk/topics/toycoins.shtml

I still would opt for a subforum for counterfeits. With threads for each type of coin. That will make it much easier to find old threads and add new info to earlier ones. Thinking fx of the sceatta coinage - it would be nice to have a place where one could see all the Museumreproduction coins etc. Some time ago I bought 3 modern counterfeits of 1898, 1935 and 1937 crowns from a German seller. They all looks cast have milled edge are magnetic and underweight so no big problem. Perhaps they were made to fool tourists(?)

Sound like someone selling items he first have to buy elsewhere... Be sure to open your paypal case in time

The double Q is fairly common and seems to be a matrix variation hence will be found on several dies. The variation with the added dots is likely from an individual die - I've not seen it in hand but I think there has been one or two on ebay over the last year.

If you get around to make scans of them - please mail them to: seuk@mail.dk

Found this title in the reading list of 'A History of Modern English coinage' by James Mackay. Could be a good place to start: H.W.A. Linecar: British coin designs and designers (G. Bell, 1977)

I can use scans of any of the silver counterfeits including Irish bank tokens - preferable in 1200dpi but 600dpi will do. http://pds.lib.harvard.edu/pds/view/4787497 This case offers an interesting view into one small coin operation of 1823. It mentions that the convict had 4104 sixpences ready for distribution which seems to suggest that they were either for selling off in quantities or that William Astbury were making the counterfeits on behalf someone else? Unfortunately there's no information on the police work behind the case so we can't see if they tried to find out who made/supplied the dies etc. if not William himself. ...Some were halfcrown dies dated 1819 so perhaps all his counterfeits were George III? Seems he was transported not hanged: http://www.convictrecords.com.au/convicts/astbury/william/85174

Think I got plenty of half finished projects all ready. I need first to get on with the other denominations - although they will be easier since there are fewer dies. Also I need to group and describe a few hundred dies for the Danish 1771 skilling which were minted in about 55 million copies from 1771-85. And I'm also playing with the idea of making my own system to sort the Northumbrian stycas out. Enough to keep me off the streets for a few years

The numbers etc. are my own invention (fx A701r is A = Group A, 7 = 1817, 01 die number, r = reverse). To my knowledge no one has published any kind of die study of these counterfeits. How many shilling do you have? ...or how many dies do you think exist? I admire your research. May I suggest that when you assign die numbers, you're missing a layer that wouldn't apply to official releases? Somewhere you need a way to identify (or at least group) the counterfeiter involved. Some will be known from contemporary reports, but no-one has matched dies to particular counterfeiters to my knowledge. If large-scale, there may be several dies associated, but otherwise there may be only one or two. I wonder if there is a way to link die characteristics to particular individuals? Except for the Ingley counterfeits of the 3/- BoE token there seems to be no way of identifying the individual coiners. Perhaps it may be possible to render which coins were made by William Booth but I'm not sure. We can only hope there's some evidence still hiding in the archives ...Scotland Yard? However more than 90% of the shillings belongs to groups which are connected with each others. So there's a fair chance they were all produced or controled by the same counterfeit ring.

About 50 new pictures added to the pages - so far I've researced 239 coins and found 110 different obverses and 124 reverses. However the actual number may be a little less as there could be a few hidden errors If we say that an obverse die could produce an average of about 50,000 coins the number of milled counterfeit shillings from these dies would be more than 5,000,000 or £275,000 The real figure will likely be much higher as I think I've only seen about half of the dies used, but that's pure guessing - will need to see alot more shilling to get an idea of the number of dies involved. I've always found it strange that there's almost no milled George IV counterfeits except for a few halfcrowns mainly of the year 1820. One could get the idea that the coiners stopped their production when George III died However after studying the shillings I think that they continued some years into the 1820s happily minting the old George III coins with the various dates available...

From BNJ Vol. 74, 2004 p.89 (H.E. Manville and P.P. Gaspar: The 1787 shilling): "When the semée omission was discovered about half-way through the production of shillings and sixpences, six 'hearts' (actually more like check-marks) were quietly added to individual dies by hand - along with the harp strings and one or two small punchings - such as the Westphalian horse in the Hanoverian arms. Thus there are two major types of the Bank's 1787 shillings and sixpences, known as 'without semée' or 'without hearts' and 'with semée' or 'with hearts', so there is a sequence. And this should not be a surprise since the inclusion of the semée is surely a question of right or wrong, not an opinon of taste. A correct representation of the Royal Arms requires its presence and what we have is almost certainly a corrected error."

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