seuk

Ok - guess the '26 acorn' is a writing error then. It would be unlikely that both my coin should be different from the gerneral type. Except for the stalks both reverses are using the same punches for leaves and letters etc.

You need a copy of ESC. The number of acorns varies between 24 and 27 and there are also variations in laurel wreath pointing. So it it simply an error by Marles? He lists those variations of 1811 but not of 1812...

While RJ Marles (Collectors George III Coins) lists a number of variations of the 1811 3s there's only one type of 1812 mentioned. However I have two coins with slightly different reverse design (obverses seems identical). I) Thick stalks - acorn to the left between leaves. II) Thin stalks - acorn centred between leaves. As I only have these two coins avalible for study there's probably more variations to be found. Btw. Marles states that the number of acrons in wreath is 26 but mine both have 27!

Great find Gollum! I'd found it so interesting that I had to buy an original copy My main focus is George III but one need sometime to look outside the borders in order to get a better understanding of ones area of collecting. Strangely it mentions the George IV coins as a popular coining target. I don't find them that common although I have some in my collection (mostly halfcrowns). Wonder what happend to Scotland Yard's collection? Our danish police museum were closed years ago and as far I know they gave the counterfeit coins to the royal coin collection at the national museum in Copenhagen.

To me it looks like C on O (or perhaps an inverted C). If the error were discovered after the first strike it would probably explain why the line is thin. Here a similar example of a danish error coin - K over misplaced N in Skilling:

Byzantine - something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/11th-Century-Big-Follis-Medieval-Genuine-Ancient-BYZANTINE-Coin-/220925664516?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3370321d04

The 1823 'two pounds' is not without interest. These are pendants made for watch-chains and there are many varities - some better done than others.

You might have a buyer in seuk because he collects forgeries. Sure! I think I have this variation however the reverse is better than mine - so I would be intersted in buying or trade. You can write to: seuk@mail.dk or drop me a PM

http://coins.about.com/od/worldcoins/ig/Chinese-Counterfeiting-Ring/

One would need much better pictures. The genuine counterstamp has the same bust as the Maundy penny. At least that should help identifying the poor counterfeits of which some are likely to be contemporary.

Ealier post on the fake halfcrowns: http://www.predecimal.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6086&st=0&p=55626&fromsearch=1entry55626

Luckily or perhaps rather strangely it seems very few British coins have been forged. I think in regard to ebay that the only way to deal with the problem is that if one of the major numismantic associations took action. As ebay don't have the expertise its difficult for them to cancel an auction as the informer may be mistaken. Perhaps more helpful would be if the major catalogues (Spink) would include a short description on how to sport the new counterfeits. At the present moment it would probably only need a page or two.

Received a few copies of the 1822 crown from jinghuashei.com a few days ago. These are poorly executed and without edge lettering. So no problem in hand at least. There's a few repeating depressions which may be useful when judging a photo. Most prominent is a small dot between the forelegs of the horse on reverse.

Returned from the Charing Cross Market & London Coin Fair with a total of 3 (!) counterfeits . Unfortunately many dealers seems to be affraid or antagonistic towards selling contemporary counterfeits and hence completely avoids them. I noticed however that some of those dealers had no problem selling the awful 'pattern' fantasy coins... Anyway, got a few contacts which seems promising and had a great stay

Super! Seems I chose the right time for my London visit

Any fake pounds will be reserved for buying George III counterfeits!

Great! Thanks!! Would be nice if I could find a few counterfeits for the collection

I'll be visiting London this weekend, staying in Bayswater. Any dealers/flea markets in the area worth checking out?

And the toned one with no grade advertised (getting on for VF I'd say) is in better state of preservation than the one described UNC - which has clearly been cleaned. That looks more like eBay tomfoolery than fakery. I've bought two of each 'grade' so it will be interesting to see if there's any difference at all He's also selling the 1818 halfcrown - listed under Germany! (guess its the Hanoverian connection )

I think this is as good a place as any to list counterfeits. There are of course more than one factory operating in China (and elsewhere). Some make high quality fakes others low. In some cases I suspect the same masters are used for both. I once bought a Danish 1771 skilling in high quality on ebay. Its one of the most common Danish coins but much collected and rare varities reach faily good prices. A year or two later my coin was reproduced in China!: http://www.jinghuashei.com/html/product/100929235950752.html (of UK coins he only have the 1822 crown for sale at the moment - however in two different grades ) They made the same mistake as with the George III halfcrown - turning the reverse upside down. I'm pretty sure they never had the coin in hand if so it must had been before I bough it. Its more likely that they simply used the ebay auction picture and perhaps a lower grade coin in order to have the size and weight fairly accurate.

"On Saturday last, Mr. Payn, attended by several assistants, entered the premises of Samuel and James Ingley, situated in the Lower Priory, in Birmingham, and found them at work stamping the blanks of three shilling pieces, a great number of which were in a state ready for circulation. They are very well executed, ring well and shrill, and are of the date of 1811. The offenders were secured and lodged in prison, with a large quantity of blanks and finished pieces, and on Monday they were brought up for examination and committed to the county gaol" Leicester Journal. 29 July 1814* Normally this would be just another report from the heydays of counterfeiting under George III. However in 1980 Antony Gunstone** descriped two counterfeits from the collection of the Birmingham City Museum. A finished coin punched: S. INGLEY'S COUNTERFEIT and a blank punched: A COUNTERFEIT BLANK. / OF / S. AND S. J. INGLEY'S, / (rosette) WHO WERE TRIED AT / WARWICK ASSIZES, 1814: / AND TRANSPORTED. / FOR 14 YEARS. / (rosette) Of course I was very excited to find out if I had one of these counterfeits in my collection. And I had! This counterfeit is of a unique type having very large lettering. So far I've seen two out of 37 counterfeit coins, both from the same dies which are also the same dies as used for the example in Birmingham City Museum. Although my material is of little statistic significance it seems likely that the Ingley production was done on a fairly small scale, perhaps only involving one pair of dies. The counterfeit of the famous coiner William Booth also included the 3 shillings Bank Token of 1811. A hoard of counterfeit 1s. 6d. Bank Tokens found in 1956 at Perry Barr, Birmingham could be a key to identify some of Booths production. I've yet to see a photo of these coins of which a few should be in the Birmingham City Museum. (Curiously two of Booths servants were Richard and Dorothy Ingley who may have been related to Samuel and James***.) *) R.A. Rutland: Counterfeit British Currency 1811-17: A Leicester Viewpoint. - Seaby's Coin & Medal Bulletin No. 744, Aug. 1980 **) Antony Gunstone: Counterfeit Bank of England Tokens. - Spink's Numismatic Circular, Vol.88, No. 12, Dec. 1980 ***)John Powell: The Birmingham Coiners 1770-1816 - History Today, Vol. 43, July 1993

A 9th century update to Frakish standard of the series X design ...happy to have the Sceatta though

Case closed - got this reply from Dr David Symons, Curator of Antiquities and Numismatics at Birmingham Museum and Art Gallery. "I am afraid that the website maker must have garbled the story slightly if it said it is Booth´s Bank of England token forgeries which were later copied. Booth made his own copper trade tokens, with his name on them, as a cover for his forging activities, and it is these copper tokens which were forged by other people later on, when Booth had become infamous and collectors wanted specimens of his tokens."

Can't be the same - not with 3 years between them. Can you make a scan?

Well spotted! Mine doesn't have one... Mine does... but it's not the same extra one. Interesting - almost like on the shilling.