Just based upon percentages, the 65's should be better than the 85. (65/70 = 92.8% whereas 85/100 = 85%). By this yardstick, a CGS85 is roughly equivalent to a MS60, but I know which I'd rather have. You can't compere these two grading systems, they are very different. MS 60 would hardly be CGS EF and to achieve CGS UNC 85 you will need (generally speaking)at least MS65 - ideally from PCGS. I agree, the numbers are entirely arbitrary and therefore useless. The whole idea of a grading system is to take the guesswork out of grading.