Accumulator

What a great story! Does this help Rob: English Coins 1180 - 1551

It's very unlikely that you will find much of value amongst random foreign coins (often collected from holidays abroad). Charities tend to collect or be given these and sell them by the kilo for little more than scrap metal value. Most people have a tin of such coins knocking around in a drawer somewhere. I may be doing yours a gross injustice, but the balance of probability is very much against them being worth much. Similarly for the British coins, as Rob says. The half sovereign (depending upon date) will be worth around £140. Very much its bullion value. For the rest it would be worth posting a few pics of the best examples.

The coin I have as 1858/3 has been discussed in the past, and I now believe it is something else altogether. I really haven't studied the copper overdates, certainly not to the extent of someone like John (Chingford) but I'm keen to get a better knowledge. Anyway, for comparison, here's my (probably not) 8/3: That looks like a lower and higher 8. The debate over the 1858/3 has gone on for years and Michael Gouby has spent a considerable amount of time on it. However, this coin has the crossbar of the 7 showing on top of the 8 whereas this is not seen on others and there is also the remains of the downstrike crossing the base of the 8. It also has the top left angle of the small 5 superimposed on the large 5 in quite high relief. It's always a good thing when they don't fill the old digits in perfectly. . I can feel a short note in the Circular coming on and that's one less entry in Peck unless someone can come up with a suitable alternative. It's a great shame that Peck's notes have gone walkabout as it would have been useful to see what he noted against each variety and in particular this one given its ambiguity. Unfortunately I've only got his notes for the first ten years of the bronze coinage. You may be right about my coin, though it does exhibit a portion of what is potentially a '3' to the lower right of the '8' (the 3's do protrude more) and there's no evidence of the lower part of a 'higher' 8 anywhere at the bottom. Have you got a small date '57 to compare with your coin? I only have a poor photo, but comparing to this the serif on the 7 of your coin is way too short. I'm not convinced its a 58/7.

The coin I have as 1858/3 has been discussed in the past, and I now believe it is something else altogether. I really haven't studied the copper overdates, certainly not to the extent of someone like John (Chingford) but I'm keen to get a better knowledge. Anyway, for comparison, here's my (probably not) 8/3:

Now, if it was the penny.... I just can't get that excited about this particular coin.

Reading this you can have no doubt. Don't touch them with a barge-pole!

I just realised what your second paragraph meant, Rob. I thought you were having a go at someone else for using emoticons, when you had just used one yourself! Let's try: a) c) Seems to work for me? Edit: See what you mean now!

Interesting coin Dave. It's certainly not the copper 1860/59 which is well known and very sought after. That leaves 5/5 as the most likely option. One of our members, Chingford, is very knowledgeable on this series. You could send him a message.

'Worn extremely well!' It certainly has! How did you guess it wasn't me? The description is priceless. Shame the coin isn't! I especially like the 'Bought coin for discount, so can sell it for discount' part. He means he's been ripped off and now wants to rip you off

Hi John, welcome to the forum. Although it's great to look at and handle the actual coins I tend to photograph them and keep the photos on my computer. That way I can browse and examine (in enlarged detail) the coins to my hearts content without constantly needing to retrieve them from their safe storage. It means that most of the time I'm only viewing a virtual collection, but it works for me. The main thing to avoid are the older pvc coin pockets which, over years, leave a sticky blue/green residue on the coins. I spent many an hour cleaning this gunk off my boyhood collection (acetone works)! eBay does contain an inordinate amount of junk but, as another recent thread has proved, there are bargains out there waiting to be had. You just need to know what you're looking for. I can't comment on Roman coins as this isn't my area (I do have a few though). If bulk buys are cheap enough then I see no reason why buying some won't provide you with a good introduction. While virtually all your learning will come from books, nothing beats putting this into practice with your own coins.

I agree. But good spot! Yes, good spot. I agree with the others, that it appears to be a chipped/damaged die. Such coins tend to be less sought after than where the die has been re-touched or modified intentionally (for example an open 3 penny of 1903). However, and rather perversely, if examples are more numerous then they can become listed in text books and command a premium (1946', 1897 O'NE etc.)

Interesting, and really quite obvious when you look. You have a particularly nice example of it too! In my mind it would certainly command a premium (look at 1946 ONE' or 1897 O*NE etc.). If it helps put a value on it, I'd happily offer £150

Hi Penguin, welcome to the forum! With reference to your original question, I never upload pics here, rather I link to my Photobucket pics, you can do the same with all similar online photo sites, many of which are free I believe ... Do you specialise in any particular area? And sorry to be ignorant but what or who was HB?? Thankyou Paulus,no specialist area it used to be gin and tonic!HB is a grade of pencil when i started school if you had one you were classed as rich!I have afair few british coins that need a proper appraisal lots of pennys so i try and concentrate on mistakes flaws of which i have a fair few.I also have amixture of euro coins my oldest being a 1877 dos centavo peru coin no gold but plenty of silver.My oldest penny 1899 wide date haven,t checked with mr freeman on the details but its one of the widest 9,s i,ve seen!I will endevour to get some photo,s posted don,t expect wonders with my coins but you decide!Look forward to hearing your area cheers mate! Where on earth did you go to school? I remember HB as the bog standard grade they handed out! If they were B or BB etc, they smudged like crazy and were really only for artists; if they were H or HH etc, they didn't smudge at all but got progressively fainter to see though they would sharpen to a very fine point (I think they were for mathematicians). H stood for 'Hard', while B stood for 'Soft'. No, I never understood that either... B = 'black', as I recall for my O level in TD (technical drawing). We drew feint construction lines in 6H and then drew the finished lines over them in 3H (chisel point). We were told by our TD teacher that HB pencils were for writing (he would throw them out the window if anyone had the temerity to use them for drawing - the pencil not the pupil, that is!) and B pencils were for 'girls'. Very sexist back in the 70s, I know. I'm just quoting.

Just an update on my purchase. The coin arrived by 'UPS Worldwide Expedited' this morning. The cost for shipping was an additional $89. Plus I had to pay import vat of £31.44 on delivery. The additional costs do add up but overall the experience of buying through Heritage was a positive one. The photographs on the site are exceptional and I have no idea how they manage to get such incredibly clear images through the perspex slabs. Another nice feature is the quality of the packaging - three layers, so very tough protection. Finally, as a first time client, they sent a free 150-page book "The Collectors Handbook" . Naturally this is focussed on the US market and, for those interested, contains information about such things as estate planning and tax. A nice touch and all very professional soI wouldn't hesitate to use them again.

Welcome to the forum Sword. It's hard to find such quality crowns. Well done!

I happened across this recent article about the theft of Lord Stewartby's collection. I don't think it's been linked before and it makes an interesting, though ultimately very sad, read.

It's a close call, but could this be overgraded by any chance? Even allowing for eBay.

1400 + premium. Estimate was 1500-2000

Thank you. To be honest I expected it to go a lot higher and assumed I'd have to drop out. The below estimate price was a pleasant surprise.

Thought it was going to keep on going as well I was watching the pennies the decent ones went double top end estimate,lesser ones were just making lowere estimate or bombed intresting Did you watch the 1856?

With the volume turned up, it created quite an atmosphere in our little 'van I can tell you! "£32K with me, £32,500 with the room, selling at £32,500, it's with you at £32,500 Sir, £33K on the 'net..." Pheeeweee! £100k for the triple unite. There's some serious money chasing these Gold coins.

I've used the system several times and, as Rob says, not had a problem. Watch a few lots before your own comes up and you will quickly get the hang of it. The auctioneer always gives time after the last high bid before bringing the hammer down, so you won't miss out on anything if you're quick. Just one important think to watch for: when you log in, you specify whether you want to be able to bid or just watch the auction. It's possible to be watching for a while and forget you haven't actually logged in to bid! Always ensure that you have the live BID button on your screen otherwise your lot will arrive and you won't be able to bid. Good luck!

It would make sense to collect the scarcer dates/types at the moment and wait for the bullion price to recede before picking up the common ones. They are never going to be in short supply unless there is a government inspired and legally backed impounding and melting of private gold. Prices being what they are at the moment you are only paying a few times bullion for what are quite scarce coins in some instances. A mintage of a couple tens of thousands only costs 3 or 4 times that of one which has a mintage of millions. It isn't until you get to the quantities available of the 1920S and 1819 that collector demand way outstrips supply. Even the Ansell sovereigns are not rare in low grade, though go for silly prices. I am finding this thread very interesting and would like to make some points and add some questions for our undoubted experts! I am not remotely worried about the CGT on coins as I don't expect ever to make over £10,000 profit on a single coin ... if I ever did I would be delighted and I am sure would get away with not declaring it! - a nice problem to have! I have not yet regarded coins as an investment and have been careful to distinguish collecting/the hobby decisions from investment decisions, as all the best advice would recommend I would seriously consider investing in gold and silver coins if and when the price of such precious metals fell back to their pre 2009 prices, as I would confidently expect to make a good (tax-free) return on them in the medium to long term, expecting them to occasionally return to current levels sometime in the next 10 years, and if not, to certainly beat other (taxable) investment options My question is - if you invest in gold and/or silver coins that are priced at/worth say 1.5-2X bullion value (sovereigns are a prime example), how much are they affected by fluctuations in the bullion price? For example, buy a sovereign for £500/$800 now, assuming that is the going rate for that date/rarity/condition, and the bullion price of gold halves to $860, what might be the effect on the value of that coin? Is there an inherent content value built in for coins that have significant precious metal content, but are collectable beyond their metal content? I hope the question makes sense, it is the same question for pre 1947 silver! Possibly unanswerable. Here's some Spink data comparing 2000 and 2005 (before the huge bullion increases of course): 1911M to 1918M : 2000 £75 ... 2005 £85 each 1929M : 2000 VF £500 EF £1750 ... 2005 VF £900 EF £1400 1930M : 2000 VF £95 EF £175 ... 2005 VF £95 EF £120 1931M : 2000 VF £150 EF £300 ... 2005 VF £200 EF £250 As you can see, the BV increased by around 15% in 5 years, but the coin values don't match up at all. Generally the VF prices range from static to much higher, while the EF prices are all lower. I'm sure if I picked a different series, the results would be different again. Despite these catalogue figures, I think it's fair to assume that the BV element of any sovereign's value will always track the gold index and the residual will vary according to the market demand from coin collectors (not bullion investors). There is a HUGE market for pure bullion sovereigns, which are bought by their hundreds and thousands by investors who never even look at their coins. Essentially all but the rarer dates in VF or below are bullion. Just look at the mintage figures and you can see what's out there, squirrelled away in safety deposit boxes and the like. In answer to your question, the further above bullion you buy at, the more the risk switches from a gold price one to a coin market one. You take your choice.

Its hard to be sure as your photos aren't very large, but it certainly looks like the one sold by London Coins. Well done! Satin 19

I don't suppose the disposal of a valuable coin collection in the latter years would be tax-free, would it? Legal tender British gold coins can be sold tax free. The sale of other coins has been discussed here in the past and is more complicated. If you have a number of disparate coins (i.e. not part of a set), these can be sold individually and CGT is only payable if any one of those sales produces a profit of £10,000 or more but, and this is the big BUT, if the coins form part of a 'collection' HMRC will assess the total of all the sales from that collection in any one year and only give a single allowance of £10,000 for everything. The definition of a 'collection' is subjective. It may be that if you wished to sell, lets say, 6 very valuable crowns, 6 shillings and 6 pennies it would be better to sell a mix of denominations in each tax year to avoid the 'collection' definition. Selling all the crowns in one year, for example may be viewed as the sale of a collection for which only a single £10,000 allowance applies. Selling one crown, one shilling and one penny of different dates may be viewed as a sale of three separate coins for which a total allowance of £30,000 would be applied. Please don't take this as any offer of advice! It's just my understanding of the present tax rules. Many thanks but, just to clarify, is that £10K TOTAL sales price, or £10K PROFIT? ie if you spent £10K on your collection and sold the whole thing for £20K, does this mean the whole £20K is a tax-free sum? Sorry Accumulator!!!! The calculations are all done on the PROFIT. So if you purchased a coin for £10k and sold it for £20k, the profit of £10k is subject to tax (less any allowances). I should say that the CGT allowance is actually £10,600 for the 2012/13 tax year, not the £10,000 figure I used above. Is this a magic loophole by any chance? If we say, for example, on April 6th get really excited about collecting G4 silver, and then by the end of June can't stand the monarch, can we sell the collection off and declare the profit under Capital Gains? Of, course, on April 6th the following year, we're about to have a love affair with Queen Mary (you will note I didn't say Anne)! It's not that simple. If you start buying and selling on a regular basis you will be assessed as a trader and will be taxed on your trading profit. This is a different area of taxation to CGT and is the one that regular eBay traders can be liable for. The revenue don't make it that easy!