Accumulator

A coin is worth as much as someone is prepared to pay for it, so the starting point is to know what has been actually paid for a similar example. Generally, the only realised (as opposed to advertised) prices that you can obtain are from auctions, so this is usually my starting point. For the rarer coins I always check the various on-line resources such as individual auction house listings of realised prices and more general services like mcsearch.info. For the more mainstream coins, eBay is an invaluable resource (but do check the actual condition of the coins sold rather than their advertised condition). I tend only to use Spink as a general guide to coins that I don't collect, if that makes sense? For that purpose it's unbeatable as a quick reference look-up. For the coins I do collect, I have a selection of books and other resources providing far more detail. So to summarise, If you are looking to buy a coin try as best you can to independently asses it's market value and then pay no more that that figure. Of course, in the real world, we all fall for a particular coin at times and pay over the odds!

Define "heat" & "cool" I would have thought it went without saying that few would store their coins adjacent to extreme sources of heat. On the other hand many would quite reasonably store them in dry conditions at room temperature between 18C & 22C, say. The temperature that they are kept in does not gaurantee them their lustre. To ensure they are not affected by moisture, the temperature of the space they are kept in should idealy be about 4 degrees F above the surrounding space temperature. Moisure will not ingress into a higher temperature. If silica gel is placed with the coins, the crystals need regular monitoring. These crystals will saturate within a few hours in normal conditions. Silica gel comes in different forms. The older type silica gel is dark blue when perfectly dry and turns pink when saturated with moisture. The newer type is brown when dry and turns (blue I think) The crystals therefore need to be visible and not in cloth bags. Idealy the coin collection and tray of crystals should be kept in multiple sealed clear plastic bags, with the crystals visible. If silica gel crystals are used, they are only beneficial if kept in their dry state. Saturated crystals will be more harmful than none at all. Silica gel crystals can be dried out in a microwave oven. Sealed plastic bags do not stop 100% moisture. Another thing that affects bronze lustre is sulpher. Tobacco smoke contains substances that quickly degrades lustrous bronze coins. Hello Bernie! Thanks for the info. I hate to say it, but it sounds as though hermetically sealed slabs might be about the best option then! I think TPGs do offer a slabbing service without the grading option though I've never looked into this any further.

That's very kind of you Gary, but when I look at that particular page all I see is gaps and coins that need upgrading. The years after 1869 are definitely stronger. I guess we're all far too critical of our own collections!

There are several good books covering bronze coins, but the only further reading on Freeman would be his own book "The Bronze Coinage of Great Britain" by Michael J Freeman.

Plain trident? If TPG's can't get the basics right... and it doesn't get much more basic... then how are they going to build credibility?

Certainly the (much) more common 6 + G, and not the very rare 1/2d numerals either. As everyone has mentioned, there are a lot of good 1862's out there and you could do much better than the example you show for not too much outlay. Gary's coin is a good step up from yours.

Yes, I had noticed this coin and it's probably better than my example but maybe not quite good enough to justify an upgrade. Interesting that the border beads on mine are even more damaged/haphazard:

It's a Freeman 102, dies 9+J. I was an underbidder, but to be honest was worried about the slight rim damage apparent on the obverse.

The photograph reproduced from Spink doesn't really help you as the berries and L C Wyon are all but invisible! The 4 berries are in 2 pairs nested within the wreath leaves. The signature is in very small letters right on the base of the bust. My photo of obverse 2 isn't great either, but my (very similar) obverse 3 shows these two features clearly:

I simply store them in my mahogany coin cabinet in a dry, warm room. With regard to the possibility of my very high grade coins incurring toning, I figure that if I look after them reasonably well, they should not tone any further, at least not in my lifetime. After all, who knows how they've been kept since, say, 1860. If they've survived since then (152 years) without significant toning, then I'm sure they'll manage a bit longer. I totally agree with this. It's hard to imagine that they've spent 150 years in better storage conditions than I am providing.

It's not a 78 obverse 8, because no obverse 8's were minted at Heaton in 1874. That leaves it as a 7 + H, F73. edit: beaten to it by Accumulator, while I was looking at Freeman's book Oops, my mistake - I forgot about that liddle H. Yet the eye and ribbon appear to be right for Obverse 8? Your grade is not over, pies. It's minimum VF, but many would grade GVF. I always find the eye a difficult one, but the ribbon on obverse 8 is much wider, leaving very little gap between the two loose ribbon ends, Here's Obverse 7 (on the left) and 8 (on the right, or below depending on your screen width Peckris ): That's really really difficult, isn't it? Freeman seems to be wrong about the eye - those are identical. However, the ribbon bow shows very slight difference, but also the rose doesn't encroach below the linear circle on 7 like it does on 8. Just out of interest, what do you big bronze/copper guys (sounds like a porn title for a John movie) do with your coins? Do you degrease? Do you oil? Do you store your copper/bronze in an airtight condition? What are you doing to prevent further toning on your blazing examples? It does sound a little dodgy put like that! The coin in the left pic is slabbed (NGC MS65, I think) so, in common with my other slabbed coins, I just leave that alone. I only use olive oil on coins with verdigris spots, the others I leave au naturale. I store them in lighthouse quadrum capsules, in lighthouse trays. The trays (the sliding part and the enclosure) can be moved and stacked inside a storage case or safe. I keep lots of silica gel sachets with the coin trays and they are always in a dry, warm location. I do like the idea of a mahogany coin cabinet (discussed in another thread) but the security aspect of leaving a collection on show would worry me.

It's not a 78 obverse 8, because no obverse 8's were minted at Heaton in 1874. That leaves it as a 7 + H, F73. edit: beaten to it by Accumulator, while I was looking at Freeman's book Oops, my mistake - I forgot about that liddle H. Yet the eye and ribbon appear to be right for Obverse 8? Your grade is not over, pies. It's minimum VF, but many would grade GVF. I always find the eye a difficult one, but the ribbon on obverse 8 is much wider, leaving very little gap between the two loose ribbon ends, Here's Obverse 7 (on the left) and 8 (on the right, or below depending on your screen width Peckris ):

You're not the first, and you won't be the last, to feel the pain of correctly cataloguing pennies

No, it's the Freeman 73, dies 7 + H. None of the Heaton mint pennies of that year are obverse 8.

Glad the Money Claims On-line service worked for you. It really is a useful.

They are very expensive ~ I'd only bid on a Heritage item if it was something I really wanted and had long been unable to get elsewhere. Michael, I bid the 1860/59 up to $7,750, but was underbidder to the winner at $8000 (w/Premium $9,400). That was my limit! I have one in AEF, but I wanted this one in UNC. I looked enviously at this coin too, but it came up at the wrong time for me unfortunately. One day...

Certainly not genuine and unlikely to be made of gold. If you don't have scales it's often possible to feel the weight of a genuine gold coin as it's surprisingly heavy for its size. Lead is often regarded as 'heavy', but gold is getting on for twice the weight of lead. Of course there are lots of caveats to this analysis but it often helps as a crude first test.

Accumulator...you have a very nice example...not a lot of difference. Mine is passable, but yours is a terrific strike. If you compare the definition in Britannia's fingers, for example, yours is streets ahead.

That's the one! Dies 8 + H

Another beautiful penny Bob. You're putting together quite a collection! Much nicer than mine which, for comparison, is:

Just about ready for the influx of family tomorrow. Happy Christmas to you all!

If you're serious about a small claim you shouldn't have to travel to the seller's local court unless it ends up with him wanting to defend himself in person. The simplest way is for you to use the internet based Court's Service at Money Claim Online. This service is actually handled through the Northampton Court and will only be transferred to a local Court if the defendant requires that. As part of the process, before reaching a judge in Court, you can both enter into mediation which, if your claim is justified and relatively straightforward, should result in an early settlement. With a bit of luck he'll just pay up before reaching that stage though.

You might get £200, but I doubt any more. As Peckris says, plenty of detail remaining.

You've already provided the answer, but i was going for MS67 Joking, of course! MS62 would have been my estimate.

Thanks for the info ! I tried putting a pic of each side on here but it won't let me. I have no way of knowing if it's an authentic (what does that actually mean- could it have been minted like this in error?) The thickness of the coin appears totally consistent with other pennies of the same age (I got a little box full from carboot sale) It is exact in every way to the others in the box except for the obvious, in size, shape, thickness, colour etc The figures are at alternate rotations if that makes sense Either way it's really bizzare and mindblowing to think it's been around out there all this time ! Is this a frequent happening and is there a market for such things? Thanks for sharing your insight I would imagine it's been altered. Look carefully at both sides and most likely you will see one has been hollowed out to receive the reverse from a coin of the same year. Another giveaway (certainly on mine) are the three (or possibly four) marks on the rim where it was held in a lathe while the work was carried out.