RLC35

Bob, as an American, how do you compare the relative qualities of NGC and CGS ? Do you have experience of both ? Michael, I have a lot of NGC graded coins (and some PCGS and ANAC's), and I think NGC does a good job on U.S. Coins. Coins of Great Britain are another matter, since the grading is not based on a UK system of grading...in fact I am not sure what they use as a grading guide for UK coins. On the other hand, I think CGS does a good job, as far as I have seen, on British coins. The real comparison of coin grading for CGS would be how do they grade U.S. Coins. Would they make the same mistakes on U.S. coins that NGC and others make on UK coins? I don't know, as I have never seen a U. S. Coin graded thus far, by CGS. That would be a good one to check out. What it all boils down to with the two grading systems is, we are not comparing apples to apples...instead apples to oranges!....

Gary, Here is my 1861, 6 over 6. Not nearly as nice as yours, but definable. It would be easy to see how this could be mistaken for a 6 over 8, if you couldn't see the upper arm of the 2nd 6.

What I do know is they are now on the CGS site with pictures so anyone registered to the site can compare them against their own coins. The above note from Bill Pugsley is very true. The addition of the individual variety listing of coins on the CGS site is a real plus. It is one of the reasons I signed on to the site. The only negative I see is that each individual coin variety is listed as 1961-1, 1961-2, etc, and you have to go through all the 1961's to see the one you are looking for. It would be better to add a designation...(1961, far-1) etc to signify the coin being shown. Still, I really like that part of the site. I currently only have a few CGS slabbed coins, but am looking at adding some of my scarce pennies to CGS, for slabbing.

I have one Gary, though not as good a example as yours. I'll try to find a pic of it.

It's subtle - but look at the rim, perfect and even, and the teeth and linear circle, ditto. It also has that 'chocolate brown' appearance that bronzed proofs so often have (and will have been there from the start, i.e. never lustred). The detail is crisp, though some currency UNCs will also be. I agree entirely with Peck's assessment. It's very similar to my own 1868 proof, which is in copper. I'd like the bronze one too, but the asking price is a bit steep... more like the price for something slabbed at PF65! Here's mine: Beautiful Proof Penny Accumulator, and a Rarity of ER!Cool!

Probably not unique - here's one on eBay with a BIN of £25. The coin on eBay is a regular New Zealand 1/2 penny, but it is struck on a "thin" planchet.

I believe that the usual cause for these second-chance scams is the real seller's eBay account has become compromised (probably via spyware of some sort) and therefore the scammers have full access to the seller's details of past buyers. You could well be correct Nick. I've spent the last hour talking to eBay and in the end, all they do is insist that they have a Privacy Policy that they would never ever breach. It's like talking to a brick wall. No recognition that, say, a rogue employee could be handing names out perhaps. Anytime you get any "offer", "Discount", etc in an email from eBay, it is best to stop, and look on eBay, at your official eBay mail. If it is a valid offer (2nd Chance, etc), it will be on the official eBay mail site. If it is not on the eBay site...it is a scam!

Agree, here's mine again David, That is the best example I've ever seen! Mine is not nearly as good.

Put me down for "Not" an open three, but I hope I am wrong!LOL!

What makes it worse is that he obviously knows the grading of VF is utter tripe. Didn't know that, Bob. Thanks. I bought some shillings from "Richparfishing" in 2009, and wasn't that happy with one of them when they arrived. I bought a few things, and sold a few things, to and from Rich. It always has turned out ok.

"Surrey*Coins" is Richard Parker. He also has another eBay ID..."Richparfishing"!

The collector you mention on my side of the pond is probably Gary Schindler ("Bronze & Copper Collector" on the Forum)...he has one of everything it seems..... Yes indeed! I'm sure he must have some gaps... In fact I think I have a couple of model pennies he used to own but no longer collects. I may be wrong though. I believe that you do.... I gave up on the models, and sold them all, including the few RARE ones that I had.... Also, I do have several gaps in my collection, although I did recently acquire the 1870 with dot under the Y, RLC35 has a much nicer specimen though.... Here is my F-164A, I believe it is the coin in question.... Nice 1908 Gary...also great pictures, I wish I had your expertise in photography!

Ebayer bronzepennycollector won it along with another. Ok thanks! I wonder if he ever visits this forum? He is from NYC. He is a regular contributor to the Forum...

The collector you mention on my side of the pond is probably Gary Schindler ("Bronze & Copper Collector" on the Forum)...he has one of everything it seems.....

Accumulator, Is the obverse you show from a 1903 open 3 (F158A), or a 1908 (F164A)? Thanks,

The 1908 1d that is on ebay, doesn't look like the colon, after BRITT, is pointing to a tooth...it looks to me like it is pointing to gap. The line he has drawn looks crooked also. What do you think?

Many Happy Returns, Scott and Debbie! (Birthday that is!)Ha, Ha!

I see what you mean Bob, but it's probably the weakest (or from the mint's point of view, the most successful) that I've ever seen. I think I would want something far more visible before I shelled out £1,300 for an 1865 penny I agree with you on that one David!

1949 is right...it is a 1865/3, although it is the weaker one of the two examples. It is a Gouby BP1865Bc. The other example is a Gouby BP1865Bd, and is much sharper!

Peter, At the NYINC Convention recently, I asked a NGC Rep. what proof you had to have, to get a coin designated (slabbed) as being a specific variety, or from a specific collection (Workman, etc). He said a receipt, or collector's Ticket from a reputable Dealer or numismatist, stating the fact. An example would be a sales receipt from Colin Cooke, noting that the coin was from the "Edinburgh" collection. BTW...I think there is a additional charge for a coin being designated from a collection, or a specific variety, not known to them.(which would be a lot of varieties, in the case of GB coins!). Even with their errors on coins of Great Britain, I think NGC is our best slabber! IMHO! Ha,Ha!

Even worse is when they call pennies "large cent" It is interesting, as a American, that you bring up about the cent/penny comparison. Although our small coins are really "Small Cents" and "Large Cents", they are called by everyone "pennies" (small cents), and "Big Pennies" (Large Cents). That use of the word penny, instead of cent by Americans, may be as a result of the large population of Americans whose heritage is from the British Isles. A term that illustrates the same type of association, is when something is considered really "good." It is not considered good enough for the President...but instead, good enough for the "King of England!" (or Queen!).

That's another worry,you think they are slabbed correctly,turns out the slab is faked so the content is also worthless,or worst scenario,the slab is correct,and it's a third party grader that's wrongly slabbed a fake.I think with the internet,more and more people will start to rely on a slabbed coin for authenticity. If you can prove that they have slabbed a fake, the more respectable TPGs like PCGS, NGC or CGS will compensate you to the market value of the real coin. For NGC or CGS, you can use the number on the slab on their databases and get a photo of the coin originally slabbed. This should tell you if you have got a fake coin in a fake slab. NGC only takes pictures of the coins that have paid the extra fee for pictures. Almost half or more don't have pictures. I think CGS takes pic's of all coins. (I think). They have had pic's of all of the coins I have followed up on at least!

I have Mal's CD, it is a very useful reference! Great pictures (examples)!

agreed in spades! Is there a good reference (post Freeman) on bronze Vicky halfpennies available? I seem to recall there was a Coin Monthly article, but i can't find the reference David Mal Lewandon (sp) has a cd he sells that has a large number of Victoria Half Penny varieties. The examples are all high quality images. Chris used many of Mal's pictures in the CCGB reference book.

John, PCGS is the same grading company that mis-identified a 1860 Farthing Mule, a while back (that was purchased on eBay by a Forum Member), then came on the Forum and tried unsuccessfully defend their ID! I haven't cared for PCGS since that issue was left unresolved!