RLC35

Here is the obverse Dave. Yes the Dealer did what how scarce it was. When I asked him to lower the price, his response was..."do you know how scarce this coin is?" I paid through the nose for it, but not 7500 pounds!

Thanks Derek, and David, I just looked at the CGS "Finest Known" 1877 ND, and mine and it are very close! Once in a while, you get lucky! Ha,Ha!

You're quite right, Gary: 1915 top, 1916 below.... http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o310/declanwmagee/Coin%20Forum/1915-1916RE.jpg[ So how did one die make so many coins? You are all assuming the fault was on a working die, there is nothing to say that the fault was not present on a master die or one of the matrices. This is what we're trying to determine. For me personally, I'm saying they're likely not the same dies at all, but rather an error (or deliberate marking) further back in the production proccess, at matrix level, though I don't fully understand the matrix story myself. If the two coins are different dies, then that would rule out a blocked die, except by an amazing coincidence, suggesting damaged matrix (or original cast, whatever that's called - anyone got any decent educational links for the matrix proccess?), whether deliberate or not? I'm a bit hazy on the physics, but I seem to remember that the original design is a massive piece of sculpture that gets reduced in a complex piece of engineering that scales down the original EXACTLY. From there, I assume that a master matrix is produced and is used to create the punches automatically. So I would hazard a guess that the tooth - if it was broken deliberately - was possibly done on the matrix which would explain the slightly haphazrd success with the operation. Is the matrix not the opposite of a coin (like a die)? If so, you'd have to add something to it, rather than remove something to effect the missing point of a tooth. Exactly Nick. To mis-form a denticle like it has on the 1915 and 1916, part of the denticle woud have to be "clogged" or filled with something, so the metal does not flow correctly into that part of the die. You see quite a few of the 1916 broken tooth pennies, so the Mint personnel didn't notice it for a long time, or they didn't care that the clog was present.

Steve and John, Thanks for the kudo's. Yes, it is a F90, and I think I will eventually offer it for sale...I not sure when. It is nice to be able to say I own one! Ha,Ha!

I just returned from the Chicago International Coin Fair, with a really neat purchase...a Narrow Date 1877 Penny. I bought it from a Florida Dealer, who had owned it for years!

I have one, and found the same issue. Not very good for coins, it always has a reflection, or a halo effect!

Coinery, Add me to the list for Bronze!

I should have looked on Mal Lewandon's Half Penny Disk of varieties first...he already has this coin listed, as a F289 (MJL 2005), a 1862 Half Penny, with a missing top horizontal on the "E". BTW...this coin is a 1862, not a 1861, as I have it listed on the header! I really need to start using some of the documentation that I have! Ha,Ha!

It can't be an upside down F. The horizontal parts would be on the other side of the vertical if it were. Right Nick. It is a mirror image of a F...not a F itself. I don't know how it could come about though, because it appears that there never was a horizontal line at the top, which it would take to would make it an E.

Here is second pic...

Sorry...didn't attach pic!

Here is something I picked up today at a coin show. It is a 1861 Half Penny, with what appears to be a upside down "F" in the word "Penny." It is not a broken "E", sice you can see from the close up, it never had the tope horizontal bar! Has anyone ever seen one like this? Too bad it isn't a better example. A second pic will follow.

In 1944 to 1946, here in the United States, our government used shell cases to make small cents... they also acknowledged it. There was no streaking of the metal however, like the pennies you show, but the small cents were a slightly different color. Those coins were otherwise satisfactory, except for the slightly different color (hardly noticeable)

Peter, That is a great idea. I just bought a CGS AU 1868 Penny, I might just break it out and submit to NGC at the Chicago International Coin Fair, on April 18th, and see what it comes back as. Obviously there will be about a month's wait time for completion.

Oh dear, that table didn't come out too well did it. Try again !!! 100 FDC MS70 99 FDC MS70 98 FDC MS70 97 FDC MS70 96 FDC MS69 95 FDC MS68 - 69 94 AFDC MS68 93 AFDC MS67 - 68 92 AFDC MS67 91 AFDC MS66 - 67 90 NFDC MS66 88 BU - NFDC MS65 - 66 85 Choice UNC - BU MS65 82 Choice UNC MS64 - 65 80 UNC MS63 - 64 78 UNC MS63 - 64 75 UNC or near so MS62 - 63 70 AU MS60 - 61 65 GEF MS60 - 61 60 EF AU58 - MS60 55 NEF AU55 50 GVF AU55 45 GVF AU53 40 VF AU50 35 NVF EF45 30 GF EF40 25 GF F35 20 F F30 15 NF 10 VG 8 VG 5 Good 4 Fair 3 2 1 Sorry, still a bit wonky, but at least readable, just !!! I think the comparison is too heavily tilted in favor of the UK 100 scale, especially in the lower grades. Without going through the whole list, I think the following is a better comparison of grades. UK Fine20 = US F12 GF30 = VF20 EF60 = AU50 At the grade of "Fine" both scales are very close to the same (I think). The biggest variances, are above that grade. IMHO! Ha,Ha. This is going to make a for some interesting conversation. LOL!

Actually I'm not. Not sure lower grade is really their thing. Probably said this before but I've certainly seen one of theirs graded F which really should have struggled to make Fair. Could have been an aberration, but unlikely as it was hen's teeth rare. In this case I'd give it NF but could change in hand. A good £69 worth - that definitely doesn't suck! I concur with your assessment of Fair+ Peck (obv better, reverse only Fair), but at £69 you stole it! I am old school when it comes to this issue and find it hard to reconcile F, GF and NVF (which most dealers and auctioneers would grade it) with a coin exhibiting so much wear. I think W&W back then were more realistic in their grading, and (if memory serves) didn't rate it even Fine. But prices have certainly gone up dramatically since then! But it wasn't as much of a steal as my 1903, which I bought from a US dealer for the princely sum of £26 !!!! Ah, the good old days Ebay used to have loads of nice bits on across the pond at very reasonable prices too. Sadly our cousins have caught up in the pricing game This was the 1990s (pre-eBay) but still one hell of a steal when you see it... It actually looks better than that in hand - there's lots of lustre on the reverse, which tends to disguise what appears to be heavy wear to the shield edges and is not so noticeable really. These days it would probably grade VF so £26 in 1999 really was a steal. When I saw it on the dealer's list for that price, I thought it was going to be a pig, but you should have seen my face when I opened the package! I was selling A/Fair 1904's at the time for £12, so you get some idea of the context. SOOOO glad I have stopped collecting dates and 'micro' varieties! For me the added spark of a rare date didn't/doesn't give the same buzz as a new type, and I can't do both! Btw I have a few boring old rare varieties and dates I will be listing on the Bay soon! Paulus, What is your eBay ID? I would like to take a look at what you are offering. PM me if you don't want to state it in a post.

I just found this coin with an unusual "8" in the date. It is a 1876H Half Penny, and has what appears to be a double 8 in the date. Has anyone else got one, or ever seen one?

Peter, You are correct about the detecting of old coins. In fact, one of the members of the Muncie Coin Club, sponsors two (2) trips per year, with about 10 people each trip, and goes detecting for those coins you mention. They go 50-60 miles south of London, but I am not sure exactly where. They always find a lot of coins, though some are common. The only thing they don't like about the trip, is having to turn the coins over to the antiqities people for evaluation. It takes them 6 months to a year to get them back! Ha,Ha. That'll be France then! Nick I got a better idea of the location from my friend, about the detecting area, it was 18 miles East of Winchester! He also said he ran one of his tour groups with the Colchester Group, and was less than satisfied. He said they didn't find any coins! That was the only time he had his group book through Colchester.

Maybe it was West of London! Ha,Ha!

Peter, You are correct about the detecting of old coins. In fact, one of the members of the Muncie Coin Club, sponsors two (2) trips per year, with about 10 people each trip, and goes detecting for those coins you mention. They go 50-60 miles south of London, but I am not sure exactly where. They always find a lot of coins, though some are common. The only thing they don't like about the trip, is having to turn the coins over to the antiqities people for evaluation. It takes them 6 months to a year to get them back! Ha,Ha.

Ski, Most local (city, County) Coin Clubs, here in the U.S. have a annual show with from 40 to 80 dealers present. State Shows (Indiana for example) are from 100 dealers, and up. Larger shows, like Florida United Numismatic (FUN),National Money Show, American Numismatic Assn. (ANA), Central States (CSNS), etc. are usually 250 to 500 Dealers, and up. Coin collecting is a big deal here in the United States. I belong to 4 Coin Clubs here in Indiana. The Muncie Coin Club, being the largest, with about 250 members. The Muncie Club has a active meeting attendence of usually 75 to 100 members, and always has a auction on meeting night of about 100 to 120 lots.

I have a warm feeling (get it?). If a UK coin is so special it needs a spectoscopy test I would recommend sending it to the Royal Mint as they apparently have some wonderful devices for checking coins (like telling me my 1933 bronze penny was a forgery.....). NGC (and PCGS) accept coins at coin shows and encapsulate them at the event and I am pretty sure they do not take their serious equipment to these events when they do so. If CGS had enough coins being submitted and thus a clearer revenue stream I am sure they would consider any and all devices to improve their (in my opinion) great service. I will make sure I pass the idea on at the next CGS Forum meeting. Bill, NGC and PCGS do grade, and encapsule coins, at some of the larger coins shows. However, they only do that with U.S. Coins. I have never seen them accept "Foreign" coins at those shows, for on-site grading and encapsulation.

Is that clashing or ghosting? I have a 1799 halfpenny with similar effect: There appears to be a mirror image of the olive branch below Britannia's outstretched arm, but I believe it's ghosting from the obverse. It may be on yours, Peck. I'm not an expert on these things. But I'm tending to think mine is a genuine die clash. Interestingly, if you look at the same coin in hand, there is considerable evidence of actual ghosting on the reverse, in the same way you see it on many George V pennies and other coins. Victoria's bun can clearly be seen, although this more "traditional" ghosting can't be seen on the pic. It is a die clash. On the obverse you can see Britannia's knees impressed under the Queens chin, and on the reverse you can see the Queens profile to the right of the trident.

That is definately a F-30. You can see part of the 8 inside the oval center of the 6, and also see the top left "rounded" part of the 8, just peeking out from the upper left extension of the 6.

Gary, I once owned a 1861, 8 over 8, and 6 over 6 (on the same 1861 Half Penny), just like yours. I didn't keep a pic of it however. I sold it on my website!