1949threepence

Ah, I see. Thanks for that, Accumulator. Excellent pic, actually. It would be an odd die flaw, surely ?

and a Mint-sealed bag of 1933 pennies Or 1954

I think that might have a lot to do with it, in the sense that the halfcrown would have seen increased circulation compared to previously, but the shilling's circulation would also probably have increased still further. Hence the extreme difficulty in locating a high grade specimen for the year of lowest mintage, 1905. Nonetheless, there are still some strange anomalies within the mintage/circulation/rarity/rarity at high grade equation, which cannot be plausibly explained away. That applies to many denomonations.

Nice coin, just a shame about the carbon spot on the 6 of 1868. Did you find anything out from Baldwins in the end, or draw a blank ? Unless they keep archival records very meticulously, it's always going to be a long shot with a date so long ago. Provenance records always intrigue me, and I really wish they were present with more coins, many of which have obviously been part of a collection, or various collections, since shortly after they were minted. Obviously, you're always going to have more chance with a coin, like the proof specimen above, which is very rare to begin with.

When I look at the picture of the 1903 open 3 on Michael's website the 3 always looks incuse to me. Yep, it does, as can be seen here Compare and contrast that with the other coin in the picture, which appaers as raised. Don't know why it is. Bit of a mystery. Maybe it's to do with the shading.

The optical illusion of details looking incused instead of raised, is only apparent when looking at a photographic image though. To the naked eye the real thing looks exactly as it is. Presumably that's because you are then looking at it in 3D. Although why, on a picture, one should perceive it as incused rather than just flat, I don't know. Any scientists among us that can explain the phenomenon ?

Fairly common, but generally in the order of 5- 15 degrees, in my experience. Never seen one as much as 45 degrees.

and me. Got the 1893 and 1874 F72 ~ which two did you get ? Absolutely. There are some I'd never sell, or upgrade, even though there are better examples out there. But others, I would definitely replace. Not necessarily any particular logic to it either. Well spotted that man

No worries, Bob I'd be very interested to see what they say about the Edinburgh collection if you find the time to post it on here. Here's how Michael Gouby describes the N over N

lol what's a 'Plattipus shiller'? A shiller with a duck bill ? (I'll get me coat)

They describe it as "N over Z (N over sideways N)" Bob, the history of the Edinburgh collection was described in Colin Cooke's monthly magazine for October, which irritatingly, I seem to have lost. Unlike the other collections, there is no preface to the collection on their website. It appears that it was sold as a job lot to Colin Cooke, who then listed them all separately for sale. Can't remember too much about the history given, except for the fact that the guy who collected them, aimed for the very highest quality. All are BU or nearly so. He didn't have all of the very rarest dates (no 1869 for example). But the ones that were there are absolutely superlative. In terms of bun pennies, they are a class collection ~ although it isn't just bun pennies, of course. Far from it. They can all be seen here Makes you want to give up, looking at that lot! Well.........unbelievable isn't it The single minded determination of the individual who put that collection together, is little short of awesome. I wonder what prompted him to off load it

They describe it as "N over Z (N over sideways N)" Bob, the history of the Edinburgh collection was described in Colin Cooke's monthly magazine for October, which irritatingly, I seem to have lost. Unlike the other collections, there is no preface to the collection on their website. It appears that it was sold as a job lot to Colin Cooke, who then listed them all separately for sale. Can't remember too much about the history given, except for the fact that the guy who collected them, aimed for the very highest quality. All are BU or nearly so. He didn't have all of the very rarest dates (no 1869 for example). But the ones that were there are absolutely superlative. In terms of bun pennies, they are a class collection ~ although it isn't just bun pennies, of course. Far from it. They can all be seen here

Die cracks are very common in the bun series, especially the early ones. The O of ONE looks as though it has been re-done as well, from what I can see of it.

Superb, Bob. The Edinburgh collection consisted entirely of very high quality coins, and to get such a rarity in such high grade out of that, is fantastic. Really impressed.

Totally agree. The amount of packaging many people use is ludicrous. The coin simply doesn't need it. Getting into some packages is like trying to break into Fort Knox. Triple wrapped, inside an outer layer of multi sellotaped bubble wrap. Irritating, to say the least. You point about possible damage resonates. I normally pick up new coin purchases from the post office, and sit down on some seats near the town centre to open them (can't possibly wait till I get home). On one occasion, I hadn't realised I'd finally penetrated through to the actual coin, and it went flying off, landing on the pavement.

You can easily see the hairline scratches as a result of the cleaning, but the plug is undetectable to the naked eye (on the pic at any rate)

thats the trouble isnt it?......we all know theyre disappointing, we all know theyre overgraded, and the photos just seem a token gesture, i cant help feeling i would buy more from them if it was fairly graded ef rather than bu, or vf rather than ef. some dealers do it right though, just bought this from Richard at world coins.....the pics sold it. Really nice coin, ski. A few very minor blemishes on the King's head, but apart from that, pretty near perfect. I can understand why you snapped it up. With regard to the Ingrams ~ yes: they would probably shift more stock at a faster rate if they were a bit more realistic with prices and grading, and upgraded their picture quality somewhat. It's those very aspects, plus negotiability on price, which has led me to develop a liking and respect for Colin Cooke (or more accurately these days, Neil Paisley and Lee Brownson)

I'd keep it as it is. Great shame about the large blemishes both sides, but that's old coins that were in circulation a very long time, for you. Apart from that , it's actually not too bad a coin. If you try and do things to it, you risk damaging it still further. You can say you've got an 1875H and maybe upgrade at some future point.

ive emailed richard several times requesting better pictures and all you get is the same ones as the site, shame really because you get the feeling as pointed out here.....the pics are trying to hide the true grade. ski Michael and Rendel Ingram do have one or two nice coins on their website, but on the whole, I find them a bit disappointing. Some of the coins seem overgraded and definitely overpriced. That said, there is one coin on there which I like the look of, and may make a punt on at some point, assuming it's not gone by then.

With a mintage of just over a million, and a Freeman rarity of 13, that's a really neat purchase, Bob Are you keeping it in the slab ?

I can see that sale going tits up

Keep it up, Patrick. You have a great attitude to life. Study hard and get qualified, don't waste your money on smoking or drinking, don't lose sight of coin collecting, and don't get led too far astray by girls. Good luck !!! Just as a matter of interest, how do your classmates and friends react to you being interested in coin collecting ? (or haven't you told them) I know when I first became interested and mentioned it to a few, they couldn't get their heads round it and stared blankly at me.

I use the vcoins search function which works pretty well, rather than by dealer or category. But I think only a few UK dealers are represented there and agree more would be good. I also find it strange when dealers use a website like a mailing list. Now when I collected milled coins I'd risk buying from a description in a mailing list. But with hammered coins I need a photo. OK, it takes time and I guess bandwidth. But I'm no longer prepared to buy sight unseen. For a start, I'm much more likely to pick up interesting details than most dealers will notice, but mostly because 'eye appeal' is an essential element in hammered coins. You can have two very similarly graded coins, but one might be much more appealing to me than the other for reasons that I'd find difficult to explain. As for people who have photos but don't post them or who just have thumbnails, well, I've tired of emailing dealers asking for pictures. Now if there aren't any or they are unclear I tend to just move on I'm afraid .. That's very true, Tom ~ or as a compromise they just have pics of their best coins, and nothing else. As far as on line dealers are concerned, good photography of their stock is pretty obviously essential for optimum take up. If you can't be there in person, as with a shop, then you need to view the item in other ways. I wish someone would tell the SW's biggest dealer Glenn Ogden from whom I've bought coins at fairs before. Now I'm restricted to buying online, I've had to rule him out just because he doesn't see fit to put up pictures. I took him up on this a while back and got a really rude email from his wife. Why do people react so aggressively to constructive suggestions, which are just as much for their benefit as anyone else's ?

I use the vcoins search function which works pretty well, rather than by dealer or category. But I think only a few UK dealers are represented there and agree more would be good. I also find it strange when dealers use a website like a mailing list. Now when I collected milled coins I'd risk buying from a description in a mailing list. But with hammered coins I need a photo. OK, it takes time and I guess bandwidth. But I'm no longer prepared to buy sight unseen. For a start, I'm much more likely to pick up interesting details than most dealers will notice, but mostly because 'eye appeal' is an essential element in hammered coins. You can have two very similarly graded coins, but one might be much more appealing to me than the other for reasons that I'd find difficult to explain. As for people who have photos but don't post them or who just have thumbnails, well, I've tired of emailing dealers asking for pictures. Now if there aren't any or they are unclear I tend to just move on I'm afraid .. That's very true, Tom ~ or as a compromise they just have pics of their best coins, and nothing else. As far as on line dealers are concerned, good photography of their stock is pretty obviously essential for optimum take up. If you can't be there in person, as with a shop, then you need to view the item in other ways.

Love it