TomGoodheart

I have never really learned to grade, largely because grading (as in degree of wear) is not the sole determinant of .. attractiveness... with hammered coins. OK, I can make a reasonable decision on seeing a coin, but I don't take it too seriously. Because there are other factors that can make one hammered coin more desirable than another, even though it may show more signs of circulation. But what is helpful as Rob says, is to know what the perfect coin (or best available) looks like to give you a benchmark to aim for. To that end I keep a collection of photographs from internet searches of coins, together with when they were sold and for how much. It gives me an idea as to whether a price is within reason for a coin in a particular condition. It also gives me a sort of population report; if I have plenty of examples, it's likely a common coin. Very few, I know I might have difficulty tracking down another. It's not perfect, but I find it helpful ..

I think I've lost track of this thread! But I had a couple of comments (My hap'ny worth!) I find it interesting that after the foundation of the euro, Germany's national debt regularly broke the set limits. Whereas Spain's government carefully followed the requirements and had the smallest debts until the 2008 crisis. What caused the problem was personal debt as Spaniards borrowed money to ride the crest of a property boom ... which of course didn't last. So really the banks were responsible, in that they responded to public demand and provided cheap and poorly guaranteed loans. But of course the people themselves have to bear some responsibility for borrowing well beyond their means, so fuelling the banks problems. The whole thing was compounded by a similar thing happening in the US which knocked confidence in financial institutions. And there's the problem. Polticians and the government no longer (if ever they did) have the power to control the national economy because it's largely influenced by factors outside national control. Financial sentiment, international debt and increased gearing of financial institutions mean that when things go well they can do very well. But when the US (or China, or a Eurozone member) catches a cold ... well, we all sneeze. As to Chris' comments about disability .. tell me about it. I work with people with acquired brain injuries. And while many of them do show some physical effects of their injuries in poor muscle control or spasticity, many of their problems are not so obvious. Changed mood, motivation, stamina. Impulsiveness, poor self control, difficulties in concentrating or keeping to a task for any meaningful length of time, excessive (and sometimes sudden) tiredness -these things all make it very difficult for them to just pick up a new job. But these things are also difficult to spot in a half hour chat and a request to do some simple physical tasks. Their problems require expertise and understanding to diagnose and to allow for. Which is not to say that many of our service users can't work and many of them would like to. But to expect many of them to walk back into a job without proper support is a recipe for disaster. Plus there's the aspect of self esteem. These guys already struggle to come to terms with how different their lives are from before their brain injury. To add to that by asking an ex-barister, English graduate or someone who worked for the Financial Services Authority to box up bicycle gears or shelf stack in the Body Shop can exacerbate depression (particularly if they realise they are struggling with even these simple tasks) to the point that they can barely function. So while I have no problem with confirming that someone who receives state support actually needs it, or trying to help them find meaningful employment, I do feel that those who are making the assessments need to have the tact and expertise to do so. I also feel that we need to focus less on 'weeding out the fraudsters' (which makes everyone feel as if they are assumed to be guilty before they are even seen) and more on enabling, assisting and supporting people to make the most they can of their skills and abilities.

MS Security Essentials found malware when I visited the site yesterday but I went back this morning (both from a bookmarked link and through the one in your signature) and viewed a few pages and had no problems, so I'm assuming the site is now safe. Bloody hackers ...

A few of the Bole Collection coins are illustrated here: http://www.dnw.co.uk/coins/auctions/rostrumauctions/auctioncatalogue/pdfs/Coins%209%20Dec%2010.pdf And if you can get a copy of the Brooker collection book (Coins of Charles I, The John Brooker Collection, volume 33 of the Syllogue of Coins of the British Isles, by J.J. North & P.J. Preston-Morley, London 1984) all of John Brooker's coins are illustrated. And a few more here: http://www.coinarchives.com/w/results.php?search=charles+sixpence&s=0&results=100

Neither (automatically) good or bad. The Middleham hoard (1993), Prestbury hoard (2005), Bedale hoard (2009) ... all detector finds. So in some ways detector found coins can add to our knowledge and to the availablility of particular types. I'd guess most hammered coins were found at some point rather than saved and passed through families to collectors, certainly the earlier ones, and of those most were likely buried. Nowadays rather than finds being made when buildings were demolished or farmland ploughed I suspect the the majority have involved using a metal detector. On the other hand, whereas people used to claim a coin was from a house clearance or deceased relative (I know nothing about this, I am just selling it) to cover the fact that they were listing a replica on ebay, nowadays some people claim they are 'detector finds'. If you look up both the PAS and UKDFD database you will find Trevor Ashmore copies have been logged there as found. Did someone bury them as a bit of fun? Who knows. Just that a 'detector found' coin is not always a coin ... or found. Knowledge, as always, is power.

Certainly smaller coins such as pennies and 5ps can be found in the same condition they were when they left the mint. The problem is that coins leaving the mint are not always perfect. Edges of one coin knock dints into another, there are often metal flaws. The only 'perfect' coin is probably specimen or proof issues. But people hold on to nice coins and then decide to use them or even break into specimen sets, so it's certainly possible to find very nice examples of coins even 20 years old with a bit of luck! (I guess I shouldn't perhaps use the term BU, when really I mean nice, shiny and with no signs or blemishes from circulation (such as finger marks or suggestions of being 'wiped' which can lead to very fine marks that spoil the sheen)).

It certainly seems as if making choices is very difficult at present. We had money saved for daughter to go to university, but with the tripling of the fees, it's just a bit of help rather than the genuine support we'd hoped to provide. But she may never work and so never need to pay back her loans, so I decided why worry? She's no worse off than anyone else and a bright kid so we'll see how it pans out. As for myself (and Wifey) we have savings which are basically my inheritance from my parents. But we're by no means wealthy, we have a few pensions each that should amount to 4 or 6K a year, plus whatever the state gives us. I stopped boosting my pension a couple of years back and bought a small house which we rent out and I figure we'll have to live on savings and rental income to top up the pensions. Diversity I reckon is the best idea at the moment because it feels as if, while some were fortunate, the majority of people with all their financial eggs in one basket came a cropper. But if I had more money, which I don't, I honestly wouldn't know where to invest it. I suppose I'm sort of burying my head in the sand. But the way I see it is that worrying about it all isn't going to change anything, so I count my blessings and assume it'll all work out in the end. Certainly I'm aware that I am a most fortunate person to be living at this time, in this country, being in work, a relationship, little debt. No life is perfect, but mine is a damn sight better than some, if not most.

Hi and welcome Mongo. Always nice to see someone new and, more importantly, enthusiastic! I can't offer much advice on nice and shiny, or much on unc, as what I collect rarely comes like that! But I have picked out a few decent decimal coins from change, so it's still possible to get 1980s and 1990s occasionally in BU. I wouldn't spend money on them however. As to what you have bought, that looks like a good start. In time you'll get a feel for grade and prices. It still surprises me how (realitively) little some brilliant Victorian base metal coins can cost, though generally the further back in time you go the more you will need to pay for the better quality pieces. People talk about rare coins and certainly there are quite a few members here who own some very rare ones, but generally grade wins out over rarity. So whatever you collect, try to get as good an example as you can afford. And if you're ever unsure, just ask here. We all love giving our opinion!!

Ah. I can only claim to be someone who sounds as if he knows what he's talking about!

I like Alan Moore's quote: 'The one place gods inarguably exist is in the human mind'.

Nice little coin. Michele Steno is it? Apparently these circulated illegally as halfpennies! Cool bit of history Debbie! http://finds.org.uk/medievalcoins/denominations/denomination/id/170

Couple of years back I used to frequent the Religion & Spirituality board on Yahoo Answers. Now that was a bear pit! You'd get the atheists vs the believers, the Christians (aka protestants) vs the Catholics, the pagans vs the fluffy bunnies and everyone was regularly told they were going to hell, whether they believed in it of not! I did learn an awful lot though, so it wasn't all bad. Plus it was kinda fun, in a carcrash sort of way.

All the luckier! (I had to buy mine.)

Mmm ... not really. Yes, you can get a coin that has enough detail that you can identify it. Like this. But it won't be terribly pleasing for that money. I think it would be worth spending more like £30-£40 to get a better coin if you want silver. A jetton or copper farthing could be had for less, if you just want something hammered.

Just out of interest, what coin are you wearing Stuart? I've recently been wearing this: Mercury (though eveyone knows it's a she and She is Liberty) dimes are supposed to be lucky, Mecury being the god of chance. Leap year dates (which this one is, 1944, the last leap year of issue) are especially so, it's said. I also have one of those Johnson Matthey replica touchpieces. Though at the moment I'm actually wearing a brass snake buckle on a cord as a sort of amulet.

Hammered coins are definitely an area where it helps to do a good search before making a decision. Rob spends quite a proportion of his time looking at old auction catalogues and I spend far more than I should on the internet, but in effect what we are doing is similar. We are both aiming to get a feel for what sort of state you find a coin in and what sort of price that commands, so that when an exceptionally better example comes up we recognise it and have an idea what we might be prepared to pay. And to avoid spending money on 'best evar example none to me' and regretting it! Bottom line is, some coins are almost never found other than bashed, clipped, bent or badly made, whereas others you can pick up a nice example quite easily. And if you can recognise a coin as being unusual when everyone else thinks 'oh, I've seen plenty of those', well, you're at an advantage.

I'm not selling, just want to know bit more information about it... By the way, how much this coin can cost? A sixpence in that condition with the hand mint mark .. £30 or so. Pierced .. £20 on a good day. But a unique curiosity? Hard to tell really. If you were fortunate to find the right buyer it could go for quite a bit more than what I've suggested, maybe several times. But finding a buyer will be tricky. How much did it cost you?

My guess (without examining it) is that someone has seen fit to make a double headed coin. Whether a mint worker for their own or someone else's use, or someone has managed to get hold of a couple of coin dies, we'll never know. My guess is the former, since it would be difficult and risky, but probably easier than getting hold of undamaged dies if you had no connection with the Tower mint.

Very odd. However, I believe the pile (the bit that was fixed to the bench) bore the obverse design for the coin and the trussel (the bit that was hit with the hammer) the reverse. The 'obverse' and 'reverse' legends on your coin are different so it appears someone has decided to use two different piles (obverse dies) to make this coin. Less of an error coin and more of a deliberate mistake!

It didn't arrive Debbie and I'm pretty sure my settings were all as expected when I checked how to alter them in response to Stuart, so I guess it's a problem with the board rather than individual settings. I've emailed Chris P to see if he has any ideas. Thanks for letting me know guys!

Have you checked your settings to make sure you're still set up to receive them (and that your in box is not full)? Edit my profile > Profile > Settings > Notification Options > Settings

Ah, that's more my thing. Since I barely have enough money for coins let alone classic cars (Dinky or otherwise) I collect rubbish ephemera and oddities. Bottle caps (of bottles I have emptied myself usually!), fossils, beach pebbles, shells, bits of bone, religious medallions and talismans, four leaved clover and stuff people have thrown away or that catch my eye and imagination. Sometimes I make them into .. assembages. Other times, they just sit in a box.

It's odd, because they surely have the time to organise it all better. It's as if there are half a dozen compilers one of whom things a coin should be listed under "Shilling, Charles I" another "Charles I, shilling" and another "A coin". I agree it's a mess and no order, or more importantly consistency. However there is a search function online. But generally, it could be better and I don't know why it is the way it is.

And even more change for coins left over!

LOL If I had that sort of money I couldn't bring myself to spend it on just one coin!