TomGoodheart

Bullion sovs £252, but I don't know the grade or dates from hattongarden : http://www.hattongardenmetals.com/scrap-gold-prices.aspx

Why not something like this? Currently £350, which is, OK, a bit over £100 premium over melt but ... nicer than the modern stuff.

For larger photos I suggest a photohosting site like flickr or photobucket. Then you just add a link to the photo and it will come up as large as you want as there seem to be no limit. Either use the 'insert image' button above or I know photobucket creates such a link for you.

Sure. If only CGS slabbed hammered coins you could have it population listed too!

Ah, but the use of contraction marks (by which I mean the ' bit of the normal ! that divides the legend abbreviations) instead of the normal stops ( . ) on the reverse on this series is a different thing from using multiple stops near the privy mark. The latter I believe is decoration, or a way to identify dies .. for some purpose. The former I believe(d) was a die maker's whim. He couldn't find the stop punch and decided to save time by using the ' punch as an alternative. Same as using an inverted V instead of an A. And yes, I had only seen two coins like this before, both the same reverse die. If this die quirk was just for expediency, it would make sense there would only be one die. The existence of a second one is .. a bit odd. Thanks, Richard! I don't suppose you can remember where you saw the example of the other contraction reverse? Yes. It belongs to one of the members here.

Ah, but the use of contraction marks (by which I mean the ' bit of the normal ! that divides the legend abbreviations) instead of the normal stops ( . ) on the reverse on this series is a different thing from using multiple stops near the privy mark. The latter I believe is decoration, or a way to identify dies .. for some purpose. The former I believe(d) was a die maker's whim. He couldn't find the stop punch and decided to save time by using the ' punch as an alternative. Same as using an inverted V instead of an A. And yes, I had only seen two coins like this before, both the same reverse die. If this die quirk was just for expediency, it would make sense there would only be one die. The existence of a second one is .. a bit odd.

I think this is a very logical conclusion. The stop variations seem to occur on similar coins so it's not as if they are to show different trial versions of a die. I suppose there would be an advantage to know how long a particular die has been in use and a differing combination of stops would make identification easier, but I am inclined to think the variations are more related to die makers rather than quality control at the Mint. A contemporary document detailing such features would be brilliant but I don't know of such a thing. And given that my impression is that the workings of the Mint in those days was kept under wraps, if not actually secret, it's likely that we're stuck with conjecture.

I'm thinking probably not! Any ideas on the 'irregularity' running from the harp and through the central crossbar? Well, any raised areas on the coin will be down to marks on the die, so maybe a dint or damage there? Eventually dies were hammered so much that they would crack, you can occasionlly see at least the start of that on coins. I'm thinking in this case, something was dropped on the die causing a cut. Interestingly your coin is from a different die from other coins I've seen with contraction marks used instead of stops on the reverse. I had assumed there would be only one, but apparently not .. curious.

Sounds idyllic. Happy Birthday Mrs P!

Well, I've had another go with the camera with slightly better results. Still took ages to get this. Not a shilling, or Charles I, but it shows my technique is improving! Edit. Gosh. I think my dinner plate is even bigger than Daves!

Not the actual inner circles, though they are often helpful when comparing the position of other elements of the design, like the mark of value or legend. However there are occasions where additional beads appear in the legend. They occur during certain types, but also on 'unusual' coins, such as those struck from Welsh silver and also some 'fine work' coins. I'm therefore tempted to think that they had some significance beyond aesthetics, but I'm not aware that there are any records that describe their purpose. What is a 'fine work' coin, you ask? They appear to have been carefully struck on specially prepared flans to a (generally) high standard. Such as this: Sometimes, but not always, the privy mark is unusual suggesting they were produced before other coins of that type.

Nice! And a decent price too. We bought my daughter a black one (we're metalheads, so what else!) a while back and it's very smart. Happy Birthday in advance. Hope you get loads of money!

Brilliant! .. though daunting in how much work it may involve! But certainly from examining shillings of Charles, it's a very useful thing to have a decent example of a number of different coins to compare and contract to one's own! An 'A' for effort (and ambition) Stuart!

I read that privy mark is the most correct. That's because only the Master of the mint and a few others were 'privy' to it's purpose and significance. The term 'initial' mark is a misnomer as it doesn't always occur 'initially', ie: at the start of the legend and while other coins carry a 'mint' mark, most English hammered was produced in one place, the Tower mint, but the marks still varied. However in terms of everyday usage, the phrase mint mark seems to have become the most popular, more so than privy-mark, at least that's what I tend to see in lists and dealer's descriptions. As to the sales ticket, you'd have to compare with other entries to see if they have similar descriptions for other sellers such as Dawson, cooke, Vosper etc. However if it's a hammered coin the liklihood is it just dates the ticket to before 1971.

Actually, that could be an advantage ... Tell you what. I'm such a nice chap (as you can see from my username!!) If anyone wants to sell give me their unpopular (gVF or better unless rare please) Tower shillings I will generously take them off their hands to help make room for more farthings or similar.. I'll even pay postage.

And in case you hadn't noticed Michael, I have a few shillings of Charles I for sale on the forum. Here: Chas I shillings

Yes, although it's imposrtant to distinguish between coins that have been professionally cleaned ('museum' cleaning) and those that someone has buffed up using some aluminium foil and spit (yes, people do that!) which effectively polishes (and rather ruins) them!

Apart from the type/variety rarities Rob mentioned, many of which are only known to exist in small numbers, I think the premiums come in more with the provincial issues, particularly the obsidional (siege) coinage. If you look at Newark coins they are, by comparison with Tower issues, generally way overpriced for the numbers available. However they have curiosity value and because many were pierced to be worn, appeal not just to coin collectors but medal collectors, civil war enthusiasts and so on. They have a sentimental premium that makes them more popular that rarer but lesser known coins. And of course demand determines price. That's the thing about collecting, knowledge is power. Not just knowledge about how many examples of a particular coin are in circulation, but what condition a type of coin is normally found in, when one was last available to buy .. it all helps you spot when rarities become available. Of course, many rarities just don't come on to the market. They pass from one collector to another privately, so knowing other colectors (and being prepared to share what you know!) all helps too.

And don't forget auction catalogues: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Spink-The-Lariviere-Collection-of-Patterns-of-Charles-II-and-Other-English-Sco-/271032527175?pt=UK_Coins_OtherBritish_RL&hash=item3f1acc2947

Hi Michael. There are a few fake (modern replica) shillings of Charles I about. Most are shown here on ForgeryNetwork.com As you'll see, they are quite convincing until you ralise that there are several identical coins which with hammered just doesn't happen. As for shiny, well, not all brand new looking coins are suspect. Hoard coins in particular may be 'museum' cleaned. Recently following their sale there have been a number of coins from the Bedale hoard on ebay and many of them are quite bright and in good condition. This coin from my collection is pretty much 'as struck' (though clipped) and presumably had been cleaned or found in unusual circumstances that somehow minimised toning. The half groats I'm no expert on, but if you spot a shilling and are unsure about it post a link here and I (and a few others I'm sure) will happily give our opinion!

Well, I see Paul Withers did the illustrations for the book. Why not contact him (Galata) and see if he can put you in touch?

Perhaps by 'uncirculated' he means the scratches go straight across rather than around in circles?

I'd grade that NEF pies. As in Nearly Entirely F*cked. Sad.

Very nice. I shall have to try that. I think the tripod is in the garage (along with a zillion other things!) It has to be easier than steadying the camera on a cardboard box!