TomGoodheart

Not my area of expertise, but your coin appears to be a Byzantine 'follis'. These coins were struck from bronze, in considerable numbers at different mints. Yours I believe is what is called an 'anonymous' issue, in that it doesn't bear the name of the Emperor. I'm guessing it's around 26-30mm across? There are different classes of these but I'm afraid I don't know the identifying features. Someone else here might. But the broad discription (your photo of the reverse is upside down by the way!) is as follows: Obv: Three-quarter length figure of Christ Antiphonetes facing, holding book of Gospels, right hand raised in benediction. Rev: IC-XC/NI-KA in the angles of large jewelled cross Couple of links here: Constantine Follis V Coins Forvm My guess is a 'class C' follis. As to dates, could be a bit later than you said? Up to the 1040 CE or so.

The thing about your penny is that it looks old. And to me, it should do! It has little wear and so you can see all the detail as you'd wish but it isn't bright and shiny as if it had just come out of the bag. Instead its history is there for all to see, which I like. Old coins, for me, should ideally look old.

This is my view too. In fact I'd be interested whether any of the other hammered coin collectors here feel any differently? In fact, how about the milled lot? Do you honestly buy a coin by grade alone? Surely not! I imagine we all look at a coin and think 'wow' or ' argh' or whatever by comparing what we see with what we have previously seen. Yes, it's nice to get confirmation from other collectors or dealers that our estimate of grading is about right, but ultimately, do we not all buy by eye appeal? I know I've posted thsi before but here's a coin that suffers from many of the faults of hammered coinage. The flan isn't of uniform thickness leaving weak patches here and there. In fact you can see places where the silver has been folded in but not properly bonded with the rest of the blank before the coin was struck. The dies have cracked with use. And the coin has jumped ever so slightly between blows leading to double striking here and there. But to me, and despite (or perhaps because of) the flaws, this is still a stonking coin! Eye appeal. 100%

If you have a picture (of both sides please) you could post we can give you a better idea. The date of issue, mint mark and condition will all affect value.

Welcome Sion. 1146, eh? Well, that beats the ..er .. 63 coins I count as my 'collection'. Of course that doesn't include the coins I've picked out of change which probably number a hundred or two. But that's what makes this place interesting. All different interests and stuff!

And a Merry Christmas and Blessed Yule from me too. Hope nobody minds but I've supplemented the virtual drink with a real one!

Mine are insured through my household policy. One coin is listed separately due to value (still less than daughter's violin which was my Granddad's) and the whole collection is named as such. I have a valuation from the local BANS (a bit out of date) to back up any claim if needed. I also have a safety deposit box at the bank I can pop stuff into. Though at £65 a year (plus £10 to get stuff out/in) it's not cheap. As to no mates, I have 2. Or rather I have been visited by two other collectors and we've chatted about coins and they've had a look at my preciouses. But they are people I corresponded with for quite a while and trust. I also used to have a PO Box for anonymity. But I now buy so rarely that seems a waste.

ROFL! I'm not complaining. I put in a bid on a scarce coin that ended at 22.13 then went off to work. Just got back and I'd have expected to see a couple of other bids, but no. Maybe that's why? Or maybe nobody believes the price in Spink. But under £30 for a coin listed at £75 in Fine is OK by me.

I think (for me at least) the fact that a slabbed coin takes up at least twice the space as an unslabbed one in a tray or paper envelope or one of those card/plastic flips with windows is a drawback. Especially if you store coins at the bank, where space costs. And even with modern slabs, it still seem difficult to get a decent photograph of a coin in a slab. Of course, the main reason I'm not keen is that I like to be able to look at a whole coin and I'm not worried about handling it (pretty much all of mine are toned by many years of exposure to the air and collectors' fingers). Slabbed coins you struggle to see the edge and don't get that 'holding history' feeling. But I'm sure if I collected copper or silver proofs where fingermarks or tarnishing were undesirable it would be a different matter. So while slabbed coins quite possibly will become commoner, I'm not sure they will necessarily be 'popular'.

Slabs as far as I can see serve two purposes. Firstly to protect a coin. And secondly, when issued by certain grading companies, to give some assurance about grade and autheticity. If you don't believe the grade given and feel you'd prefer the coin out of the slab, break it out. Unless you want to sell it to Americans (and they still buy unslabbed coins even if they have a preference for slabbed ones, since few other countries are really into the things), why not? Personally I think they are a bloody nuisance. I store my coins in trays and a slab is useless to me. And though they may be great for US coins, graded according to their system, I still find their grading of British coins can be off. However some people like them. Keeps sticky fingers off your pristine Cu and silver and if you're into dropping things regulary the slab will protect from dings. Possibly some even find them aesthetic. I don't. The only caveat of course is if breaking a slab, take care not to damage the coin in the process!

The next time any of you newcomers to the hobby might be tempted to pick up a 'rare' medallion or coin, may I suggest checking out ebay first? I'm pretty sure that all those people who bought coins and medallions celebrating the Investiture of Prince Charles or, more commonly, the Charles & Di wedding though they were on to a good thing. But if you take a quick glance at eBay you will find that there are thousands of the things. Mostly unsold. Same with the 'rare' Charles Darwin £2 coin. The only reason they are bloody rare is because practically every single example is on eBay! Why oh why would you pay £3.99 for a £2 coin? And more interesting .. why would someone imagine that somebody else would pay that?? Instead of buying one, just give a quid to charity. You'll still be better off financially and will have a sense of having done a good deed! So remember kiddies. Rare describes something that you aren't going to see every day. Something for which there are normally more buyers than available examples. It doesn't matter what someone else says, if you've never seen a coin before (or have never seen as good an example) there's a chance it's rare. Of course, it's not a guarantee. Some things just aren't all that desirable even though they rarely come up for sale. Limited Edition 'coins' for example, which are usually just worth bullion. And some things are not at all rare (like Charles I Newark siege coins) but there will always be a market for them. That's where the homework comes pays off. Rant over. And all you Grandmothers out there? Well, now you know how to suck eggs!

53 going on 17.

As far as I know, varieties generally are sought after because someone has published an article or book pointing out the difference between the variety and the 'normal' coin. Which isn't to say that other varieties don't exist. Just that they are, as you say, unlisted. You could write a note to Spink and ask them to consider publishing it in the Numismatic Circular pointing out the difference between the alignment in the teeth of the two coins you've pictured (or whatever the difference is, if that wasn't it!) And if they agreed, all of a sudden, you'd have a 'published variety.' Of course, all varieties were originally un-noted until someone like one of us brought people's attention to them. It's when others say 'Oh yes! There is a difference' that I guess it becomes recognised. And of course, some series have been much studied such as when Peck wrote his tome on “English Copper, Tin and Bronze Coins in the British Museum 1558 – 1958â€, it opened the floodgates to people looking for varieties he'd spotted and new ones to share. Apart from North, I'm not sure how much has been written about English silver and sixpences in particular. Maybe you should write something. And one day maybe like Peck, Sharp and others, you'll have a numbering system for varieties named after you!

I don't know Dave. Charles I shillings have been those prices for bog-standard coins for a while. Yes, they have a little silver in them but only what? £1.20/g? So that's only £7 or so. It's seemed to me for a while that most copper coins are cheap; or at least, not as expensive as the sort of thing I yearn after! And high quality coins are most always more desirable than rarities in average or less condition. Plus there's the fact that interest rates are almost nil. Maybe people are thinking that alternative investments like coins might do better than putting cash in a bank or building society?

I presume you wish to sell coins? I did a Google search for "Roman antiquities" ysaloga and see three dealers I recognise there. Presumably they must buy stock. Perhaps you could contact one of them? While there is a small 'Items for sale' section here, Predecimal is primarily for people to talk about coins, not sell them I'm afraid. Places like eBay might be more suitable if that's what you need.

Ooh L@@K! A pair of those very rare Charles Darwin £2 coins! Only £70 (or offer). Of course, they are only rare because every bloody single one of them is stuck (unsold) on ebay!

Hmm .. so are you saying that you think in time people will be buying the slab, not the coin 400? That confidence in the market will fall so low that people will be wary of buying anything not 'authenticated'? Or ... Just not quite sure why their value will be enhanced over a similar coin of a similar grade? But it seems to me that my argument isn't about that. You after all are making an assessment (based I presume on your experience and knowledge) as to whether a coin will 'make the grade'. You are selecting coins you consider to be worth slabbing. You're not being lazy. What concerns me is the future buyer being swayed purely by the fact that your coin is slabbed, not by the fact that you owned it (and that you are known to be a good judge of a decent coin) or that they like the look of it. That's lazy. Or in fact, when people start looking for the highest graded slab, we're no longer talking numismatics IMHO but a different hobby entirely.

Well, I was thinking of the 'certified' slabbers, but even there, grading and so on is only as good as the person or people doing it. As you'll have gathered Dave, I'm not a fan of slabbing. I feel it's a sign of people being willing to take someone else's word for something rather than using their own knowledge and judgement. I can see it appeals to investors, but for coin collectors, it encourages laziness in my view. Plus it makes it difficult to see the coin properly, particularly in photographs. Quite why Americans like the things, I'm not sure. But I guess centsles is just jumping on the bandwagon and giving people what they want. If by slabbing a coin he can get more money I can see why he does it.

I saw a hammered Chas shilling recently, graded by Ponterio as EF. Now that to me seems unhelpful for a hammered coin. Yes, you could say that a coin has minimal wear. But hammered coins are also judged on the evenness of the strike and flan thickness and also the fullness (and ideally roundness) of the flan. A fuller coin with some wear and a good portrait may be much more marketable than a virtually 'as struck' coin of uneven shape and with a weak portrait. Toning, which is not accounted for in grading, can make a reasonable coin much more desirable or completely horrible. This is why slabbing hammered coins seems pointless to me. As a guarantee of autheticity, fine. To protect the coin, OK. But as an indicator as to how desirable a coin will be? No real use at all. And as for centsles, well, there aren't that many Americans with much experience of the sorts of coins I collect. And he certainly isn't one of them!

Yes, I've seen those too. I checked out the NNC details for one coin and it was only what it said on the label. Personally I buy a coin not a slab and his 'no returns if you break the slab' kinda puts me off. However the coins I've looked at (the Charles I ones) all seem acceptable and have sold for the sorts of prices you might expect (ie no bargains!) I did bid on one (and didn't win) and probably would bid again if I saw something I liked. The grading is like the slab to me, I makes up me mind whether I think the coin is ok and would fit my collection. I don't care if someone self-slabs and grades a Fine coin EF, I just rate coins as attractive or not and an improvement on what I've got, or not. His coins rarely seem to have much in the way of toning, which is a minus point in my eye, but I've not noticed anything awry with the coins themselves.

To be honest, I don't know. I have discussed these replica coins on EnglishHammered-L, CoinForgeryDiscussionList and obviously it's an issue on ForgeryNetwork.com. I have also talked with other collectors by email. And that's part of the problem. The buyer community is fragmented. We tend to congregate with people of similar collecting habits or on general coin websites like this and the same subjects are discussed in half a dozen different places by 100 different collectors. There is, as far as I know, no one voice where issues can be highlighted in the knowledge that everyone that might be interested will read it. The BNTA is just that, a trade association. I have dealt with several of its members over the years and found them to all be reputable folk. But I'm not sure that membership of a trade association is necessarily a recommendation. It just means you trade in an area and is no guarantee that you are knowledgable about everything that might pass through your hands. The big auction houses are known to have collections of counterfeit and replica coins but those are essentially for their own use. It's rare for them to give ordinary collectors access to these and so they aren't likely to be too interested in joining up with collectors even though (or perhaps because!) they have a wealth of knowledge. There are of course the BANS scattered around the country. But I have to admit that, though invited, I have never attended a meeting. I'm not sure how many collectors are members, but I suspect not a huge proportion. I suppose that, since we're discussing a problem on ebay (though clearly it exists elsewhere, that's certainly where these things can easily be found) one of the ebay groups might be useful. But as I think I've mentioned before, the one that discusses forgeries (Coin Forgery eBay) appears inactive. Lawrence Chard wrote a jolly good eBay guide on counterfeits, forgeries and the like and another on WRL replicas. There are other sellers who have written guides to spotting fakes but .. who reads them? Us perhaps. But the people who really ought to? Not so much it appears.

Someone actually did do something! Worthless pewter junk I had to laugh, though I can't imagine the eBay people will be too pleased!

Yes, I think that was my frustration talking! But I do feel that if some youngster (and we've had a few as members here) forks out a decent wodge of pocket money on what they think is a representative example of a coin and then a few months later find out at a coin fair or from a dealer that they have been swindled that is quite likely to discourage them. And for the hobbby to continue we need new collectors to take an interest. And we've seen with slabbing, a proportion of collectors are delegating the identification and authentication of their coins to a third party. It only needs a few replicas to be mis-authenticated and confidence could start to go. As for knowledgable collector, well there's a coin on eBay at present currently listed at £230. If you're not a knowledgable collector that seems to me to be a lot of dosh to be throwing at a coin! And if you are, why are you bidding on something that shouts "replica!"?

I really don't think there's a lot we can do, except be very suspicious of old coins that appear too perfect. If they look too good to be true, they very likely are. While that's true, I have noticed that there are increasing numbers of (modern) cast copies of very ordinary late hammered coins appearing on eBay. I might be suspicious of a rare variety or a much better than normally found example, particularly being listed by someone with a record of only selling jeans, but an ordinary coin? And if I'm just starting out and want a space filler? Yes, there is a Henry VIII testoon currently on sale for a relatively low price that looks better than any I've seen before; but without the coin in my hand it's difficult to tell. The main reason to be suspicious in that case is that the seller apparently can't be bothered to visit a dealer to confirm his coin's value but is happy to let it go for quite a bit less on eBay. But the 'average' duff 'coin' goes for around £30. A decent profit for someone that has perhaps spent a few quid making it. And if you're sensible enough to refund all money and act polite if a buyer questions their purchase, you avoid most negative feedback allowing you to continue scamming many others. No, it's a bad business that harms the hobby far more than the individuals who are unlucky enough to buy one of these things. Eventually any coin of any value to a collector without a photographic provenance going back at least 30 years could become unsellable. What happens then to Joe-average collectors like us? Either we're priced out of the hobby or left with a collection nobody else will want.

I think the problem is Aard, it isn't so much us or people like the collectors here but the investors you mention that are into 'high value'. Plus of course auction houses and subsequently newspapers like to go on about how much a coin has made. Which then makes people think all coins have to be worth something, when the truth is most are just so much scrap metal. And that all coin collectors are made of money and will give it away at the drop of a hat. As for inflated prices, well that's kind of relative. When there's only a handful of any item, whether it's a coin or a beanie toy, and there are plenty of people who want one ... You or I might think the prices are insane, but to those collectors who end up paying less than they had hoped, it's cheap. Bottom line is that if there's a way to make a fast buck, someone will find it. Even if they have to do it in a factory in China.