TomGoodheart

Fine work pieces are, as far as I know, still subject to debate. They are separate from patterns, which are example pieces produced to show how the future coin might look. Michael Sharp (British Numismatic Journal xlvii pp 102-113) suggests fine work pieces are more akin to proofs since they are clearly superior strikings. This idea is supported by the fact that almost all fine work pieces bear the first mint mark for a new portrait or reverse style. Thus it appears that when a new style is first issued a number of fine work pieces are struck. Patterns by contrast normally bear the previous mint mark to the issue. Whether they were for presentation or for reference is not known. The high premium is because they are only known in relatively small numbers and generally they are of very fine quality by comparison to the equivalent 'currency' pieces. I have a scan of Sharp's paper - pm me your email address and I'll send you the relevant page if you like. And welcome to the forum!

True - and now it's relisted it's going to sell, but sometimes people just do themselves no favours at all with their listings. Very odd as surely it has an impact on the final price..

I suspect most of us here have made a similar purchase at some time - something that looks interesting, promisingly odd or just something we haven't seen before. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes not. But each time we (hopefully) learn something by it! It makes the hobby interesting and challenging. It's how I picked up my first counterfeit coin - which incidentally I am still fond of! Please do let us all know how you get on with ebay. And in the meantime, feel free to tell us about the rest of your collection if you like! New members, particularly ones that join in the chat and exchange of knowledge, are always welcome!

Like this? Although this is the same coin/seller as your link but it didn't sell on that occasion.

Here you go - I finally found mine. The obverse an early period Hibero-Norse 'St Peter' penny dating from 919-925 muled with an obverse from one of Aethelstan 'King of all Britain' (924-939) (See Spink 1093). An unlikely but interesting pairing given that Ethelstan, Aethelstan, or Edelstan (the son of Edward (Aedward) the Elder, and the grandson of the famous King Alfred the Great) actually took York from the Danes in his thrust to capture the Viking held areas of Northumberland in 927. I hope you didn't pay over the odds?

WOW!!!!!!! What a rarity! A 1941 Charles II shilling That surely MUST be unique - especially with the portrait of George II on it......... (where did the crying smiley go..?)

I believe what you have is a modern souvenir. During the excavation of viking York some coin dies were found for the reverses of two coin issues. Copies were made and now you can go to the Jorvik centre and a 'moneyer'will strike you a coin from these. (In the 'old' days you could do it yourself...). What you appear to have therefore is a mule of two coins. I do have a Jorvic 'coin' myself but can't put my hands on it at the moment to double check but from memory it looks the same. They are made from lead-free pewter (except I believe the first one given the the Queen or whoever opened the place which was silver.). Oh, and welcome to the forum Gardth!

A central hole in later hammered coins is also evidence that the coin was 'withdrawn' during recoinage (normally that during the reign of William III). In theory the coins were the supposed to be melted down and recoined but many seemed to escape the fate.

Good find Rob!

Hmm.. very interesting Rob. I've only seen two others, neither of which had these features (although I have seen a Tun im coin without the reverse stops). The contraction stops however really are very odd indeed! By the way - do you think the obverse mint mark looks a bit peculiar? The right hand side of the tun isn't quite clear - I am aware of the existence of a Tun reverse coin with obverse Tun over Crown over Bell mark (!!) - you might want to take a high power lens to it with this in mind! I love this series - always something new!! Richard Ah, now one of those I have seen - not sold as 'fine work' but without the provenance of course!

I can't imagine a time they weren't!

Please note. I have in the past bought coins from a chap called Keith Chapman who trades as anglosaxoncoins.com I know of no reason to think that he is at all associated with the above company.

I thought it was but it isn't listed on their website. I'm waiting for the latest Numismatic Circular and I'll let you know if there's anything there about it. Then again, the Circular used to be posted to arrive on the first Saturday of the relevant month but hasn't been for a while now. Maybe they just aren't as organised as they used to be?

Not at all Chris. I hadn't got round to checking if he was a member yet. He brought the post to my attention and I did think I'd not been fair. Besides, I may want to buy something from him again! (Hi Antony! )

For those who are interested in ancient coins I thought I should bring to your attention a posting from englishhammered@yahoogroups.com. This was written by a reputable dealer with some 13 years experience in the business. I have edited the post slightly. > Dear All, > > I just want to make as many people as possible aware of the following site selling fake Anglo-Saxon coins and fraudulently offering my coins for sale: http://www.anglosaxoncoins.net/ > > The fakes are well known fakes openly sold as `replicas' on e-Bay etc. There are also three coins of mine offered for sale. > > Unfortunately, the individual selling the coins, who goes by the name of Michael Millard, has already conned one collector I know of, out of over $4000, he has an English accent and sends the coins from an address in Texas. The fakes themselves are not a concern to the collecting community as they are well known ones; it is his method of operation that poses the greatest danger. I have been in contact with the ANA, Mr. Millard claims to be an ANA member.> Please note. I have in the past bought coins from a chap called Keith Chapman who trades as anglosaxoncoins.com I know of no reason to think that he is at all associated with the above company.

Rereading my posts (which I should obviously do more often!) I am concerned I may have done Antony Wilson a disservice! What I meant to say is that, for the sort of coin I buy, I have found MV's prices generally lower than AW's. But then one is based in New York, the other in Norfolk etc, etc. What I didn't mean to say is that AW's coins are overpriced which, upon revisiting my post, I feel could have unfortunately come across. So just to clarify, I have bought from York Coins in the past on more than one occasion and was happy with the coins and with the prices I paid. I was also more than happy with the service I received, which was excellent. No two dealers are likely to ask exactly the same for a coin. What's important is to find a dealer you can trust to give good service and whose coins are as described. Hope that's clear and sorry if there was any misunderstanding.

The price of bread in 13C England was also regulated heavily in terms of quality, weight and price by the state to ensure that people could afford it. You could buy a loaf for 1/2d but this doesn't really equate to what a halfpenny would buy today based on the RPI. Bakers costs were carefully calculated to allow fro stagginf, material costs etc. As Chris says, it's too different today to meaningfully compare. Even the cost of war is different. Nowadays it's a state affair and governments can borrow in different ways from when Kings had to levy the poor via the barons etc. to buy a halberd!

Maybe I'm tired but... I just can't see it! But as for sh1t? Right on.

Regular Army wages in 1346 Esquires, constables, and centenars 1s/day Mounted archers, armored infantry, hobilars, vintenars 6d/day Welsh vintenars 4d/day Archers 3d/day Welsh infantry 2d/day Currently a UK Army Sergeant's pay is about £80 a day which I guess you could peg at 6d. Therefore £1 (1346) is £3200 (2006). The difficulty with houses, beer etc is that their relative value has shifted. Beer is now a 'luxury' rather than an everyday drink. Houses are more expensive due to 'investment' potential and bread is very cheap.

This site will do the shillings.

Well congratulations Chris! Just one thing though, you seem to have forgotten to offer us all shares in Rotographic so we can retire in luxury when you sell the brand for £400,000,000! (Which, following another thread, was still £3,113,293 17s 7d in 1625). No, I don't know why I put that in either...

Everything he sells looks 'brasso'd' ........ sad.

If you want a fairly good guide, Lloyd Bennett is one of the dealers that does state grades on his listings. As you'll see if you browse, you can get some pretty nice Cnut pennies but Ed VI shillings not so good. Charles shillings are only really good when made using specially prepared flans - so called 'fine work' issues. In other words, the 'norm' for different types or ages of coins can differ significantly. Just ask Sylvester how many well centred Stephen pennies he's seen with both good legends and bust! That's because there is possible variation at every stage of production! The flan (planchet) is hand produced. They were cut from rods or plate and roughly rounded. They were then stacked together like a pile of pancakes and the edges bashed until the whole stack was more or less circular. This means that often the centre of the coin is thinner than the edge, therefore the legend often strikes up better than the bust. The coin just needs to be dropped into the pile (the lower of the two dies, bearing the bust imprint) without care or the trussle (the upper die) held at a slight angle and the coin will be off-centre or struck more strongly on one side than the other. If the hammer blow or the coiner's grip is weak, if the hammer bounces..... For Charles I by the time Chas had left London, while coins was still produced with the royal portrait, quality control had gone out the window. This means that coins that would for Elizabeth or James only rate as good fine or nVF may be as good as you will ever see outside a museum. That's why grading hammered coins requires you to know so much more about the particular coin you are looking at than the later milled series. Yes it's a challenge but for me (and I suspect Sylvester!) it's one of the things that make collecting such coins so interesting.

And here we have exactly why it's likely to be so difficult to 'certify' grades for hammered coins!! As Sylvester says, you need to compare coins with similar in the series. A great Ed II penny is going to be different from a great Chas shilling. Just to show you, and as you asked (!), here are a couple of examples. The first two are early coins showing the ruff collar popular in the first 'Blackadder'! The coin on the left is as close to EF as you will ever see, the other near VF. The second pair show two coins that are as close possible to how they were when they were first struck (ignore the toning for now). Neither shows any wear at all so, in theory, would be EF. Despite this they only really grade VF because of weaknesses in the striking plus the fact that the first is from knackered dies, the other from poor artistry (what Spink call 'coarse'!).

Ooh goodness. Where to start?.... Well, it's going to depend on the type of coin, rarity etc. It's also going to depend on whether the flaw goes through the coin (ie if it possibly weakens it) or it's a 'crease' in the metal. The extent of the split (ie the proportion of the coin it covers) is also a factor. Some coins are more prone to such things and so collectors will perhaps be more likely to tolerate them. But ultimately I'd guess that, like me, most collectors will look for a decent strike, an even design (ie are the letters and bust equally clear), a central strike and a nice, round flan. The more of these I can get the more likely I'd overlook a small split. It is, as you say, one of the unfortunate but naturally occuring problems of such coins. Will it affect the value - probably yes it will. But the degree to which it does will depend on the above and the grade. After all, true EF hammered coins are not that easy to find! If you can post a pic that may help!