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MS is MS, MS 60 is an un-circulated coin. Higher grades are more subjective with MS61 and higher attention is paid to strike, bag knocks, luster. toning etc. Wear and poor strike being very difficult to distinguish when it is slight. Also attention should be paid to the condition of the milling of the coin edge The whole point of TPG is consistency for valuation and comparing coins. The subject coin from the photo shows slight wear on the higher points and more correctly graded AU 55 - 58 or EF IMO. Personally I prefer the Sheldon as it gets rid of the abt. nearly + etc that are much more subjective. However it must be applied accurately to be of use. Having said that the book The Standard Guide to Grading British Coins is a good guide

Reverse 1st Diagnostic : Pronounced vertical die crack originating from top of Britannia's head, undulating/squiggling at 2mm distance from the inner rim border, terminating precisely at the baseline of the first N. Reverse 2nd Diagnostic : Associated branch crack extending leftward into the olive branch cluster, manifesting as a faux leafless sprig adjacent to the standard 10-leaf configuration. ( Severely lapped reverse die resulting in a missing leaf / ghost stem variety.) Reverse 3rd Diagnostic : Equally spaced masts (Type C / Large Letters reverse hub diagnostics).

I see your point. The designs of modern coinage, including pre-decimal QE2 as here, are low relief to prolong the die life, almost 2-D with negligible depth, and thus it might not need much acid dunking to erode any shallow raised detail, if it were treated so. As the adjacent field would also be dissolving that may produce the expanded effect as shown, almost like a ghost image, but that's just thinking of a theory and probably doesn't make sense. The marks aren't acid marks either, they're loads of small cuts, perhaps kept in a tin with other coins for many years.

That’s a VERY valid point…

Must have been really hard up to forge a Ell penny

I really don’t see the date, for example, holding such a clear, crude form after submersion, myself…and especially for all the other devices to be so poorly positioned, if it were really the genuine article!

It is the rim metal covering the legend that gave me the response above. It may well have been both processes to clean off any surface marks from cooked material in the mould (if cast), with force applied (?) to produce the inner ring. I'm struggling to reconcile the ring lip with a linear circle, as it would have to impinge on the legend too as seen. Only the person responsible for it knows the truth.

I would say it looks like acid immersion - porous surface, and the designs plus fields will erode downwards as they originally rise up from the coin.

Definitely…wot Rob said!

My thoughts on the German forgery is that I reckon they had bigger fish to fry in 1945, than to bother themselves with bronze pennies

If you consider what a flan is, there is an underlying crystalline structure based on the metal in question. At the atomic level, the atoms are connected by well defined structural links via shared outer electron pairs. In a perfect piece of metal with no inclusions, this would be consistent across the entire surface. However, at the next level up, the surface is disrupted by metal flow when struck leaving small sub-micron cracks. A crack is a crack and therefore will allow a greater surface area to be exposed to any reactant. One thing I have noticed with seriously corroded coins at the date for example is a 'moat' around the digit where the metal has been more rapidly removed than one might otherwise expect. I acquired and sold one 20 years ago, but can't find the image. This I would explain by the cracks allowing the reactant to penetrate the metal and so lead to increased metal loss at these points. To compare with toning, which is only another form of altered metal surface, not involving metal loss, you regularly see more toning around the relief detail. Again, I would put this down to the stress cracks allowing greater reactivity with the atmosphere. eg. see below. It is posted elsewhere, so apologies, but does demonstrate my theory very well. If metal is going to react, it doesn't matter much whether the fluid is a liquid or a gas, as both will cause some effect if chemically possible, just the rate and effect will vary.

The visible lettering is too crude and close to the rim IMO. It looks more like an abused attempt at a cast copy to me. Any attempts at acid cleaning will thin the letters and reduce dimensions on all 3 axes if there is total immersion. The weight of a cast would obviously depend on the amount of metal poured into the mould, so I think not relevant in this instance.

Another acid bath victim perhaps? Any other theories? It weighs 9.1g

Because they know no better and want to believe what they see. Unfortunately, knowledge requires some input from the prospective purchaser in the form of reading up the subject before buying. To me and you it is simple, but that's because we are interested in the subject matter. For the uninitiated just randomly looking for things that appeal visually, it's not a great step to hit the buy button. Sad but true. Ebay can't police the content sufficiently to make a difference, so once again, it relies on the moral compass of the seller. There should be a useful statistic in there somewhere for a number for Mr. Average's honesty coefficient, not to mention the gullibility coefficient of the typical buyer.

Oh boy, here's another fun POS. "Great Britain 1885 Coin Victoria Britanniarum" How can people fall for this? https://www.ebay.com/itm/188825441303

I’m hoping your packaging will deliver something slightly more round, Clive 🙏

Buttttt, it does have a 20% off coupon! Please don't blame the postie if this turns up on your door mat this week, Stuart... 😬

I absolutely LOVE this one, and you only get to see the reverse, too…maybe they’re just being kind! Kind of Knight-like in shape, quite the piece of art https://ebay.io/m/Mck7Te

That proof 1840 shilling sold at HA in 2015 for $11K all in. A fantastic looking coin.

Have to confess that I was only interested in a couple of milled patterns, so wasn't paying much attention other than to note they were expensive. However, I did get both Martlet/CLH 1550 shillings though (lots 13 & 14) at some cost. Both typical Ed.VI dogs in terms of quality, but happy with the pair.

a Bullion Dealer uk based forward this to me. in case its of interest to someone... not my cup of Tea... 👍 recent book release may be worth a gander.... wait until they arrive at the Charity shop.... 😀

In the case of written text, I suspect it may have been underneath a piece of blotting paper or at least something as adsorbant as bog-roll. That was the only way I could rationalise my 1773 halfpenny on a spread flan with Basing House plus some indecipherables written in the hand of H Webb. The above could equally be due to someone making a poster. Anything written or pressed onto newsprint with excess ink is likely to pass through quite easily given the paper quality.

Would it not be reversed?

This book does not exist?? Looking to know more about Roger Keenan. I live in Torquay and I will investigate this gentleman and any book. Please if anyone can help me or give any advice. Thank you

Certainly looks like transfer of newsprint to me.