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hazelman

Using acetone to clean coins

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Yes it is a pretty coin (thats probably not a correct term to use) I especially like the head of Victoria on the other side. I will certainly be collecting more of them.It is a pity about the fingerprint, now I know its there its annoying me but i will just put it down to experience and look for better examples.

Thank you everyone for your advice on my first posting.

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If it helps Ian, someone recently made a good point to me that these finger prints could just as well be as old as the coin, and if you think about who could have handled it, the life it lived and how it eventually got to you with someone's fingerprints from maybe the 19th Century... well, it made me re-evaluate how miffed they made me ;)

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We all make purchases early on in our collecting that we probably wouldn't after a year or ten. But these experiences help us learn, both what to look out for and what we personally count as important in a coin. As Nordle says, there are many different ways to appreciate the imperfections of the coins we own.

And in the end, as you say, it's a pretty coin, so no terrible loss to put up with it until you find an upgrade. A good first post I think!

Oh and, welcome!

.

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Has it been cleaned? The light bouncing off the detail looks a bit reflective for my liking. If it has been cleaned then it could well have left a residue that has picked up the fingerprint.

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Yes rob its been cleaned .

The acetone without olive oil makes it reflective ?.

When i have practised with a couple of cheap coins and left in acetone to long always appear bright.

Think the fingerprint has always been there but interested in your comments.

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Wait a minute! Acetone never turns a coin bright or white. Well not on circ. coins ... try on BU copper ... report.

JPL

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Yes if you put a copper (not bronze) coin in acetone and leave for longer than 30-40 seconds will lighten the high points.

In my experience

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No idea if it was cleaned prior to me getting hold of it. Could it be the way I photographed it with a mobile phone and fluorescent lighting?

When I tried the acetone I did not dip it just dabbed it with a q tip. Did not get any dirt off with it, the coin looks exactly the same as before I tried the acetone.

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I personally think the finger print is part of the history of the coin, and to my eye takes nothing away from it's appeal.

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I am sending a bottle of my JPL Coin Care to Paulus of U.K.. He can give his own opinions. I do here that U.K. numismatists have a hard time getting stuff like the original Coin Care made in California (everybody today - some bottles have gone to $250, Verdi-Care, etc. - due primarily with Verdicare that its expensive to buy due to shipping, etc.. but this material is really a coin preservative as it leaves anti-oxidant type film on the surface of the coin preventing further oxidation.

So its Christmas time ... a free bottle to a serious U.K. collector. Not sure if this can really help anyone but a product that can remove green surficial slime off a high copper rarity and leave NO SURFACE EFFECTS that it was cleaned. Is that worth $40?

Surface effects other than if you remove 200 years of patina there will be a VISUAL change but NO EFFECT on the copper ITSELF. Sure - its safe on silver ... if it has no effect on a more sensitive copper surface.

Shipping is probably $20.00. I usually sell them for $20 here to the Yanks. LOL.

We shall see ... Paulus ... be CRITICAL. Sending it tomorrow with instructions for use.

In the interim ... Long live the use of Acetone in the U.K. ... hey ... its cheap but the real question is can it get past a grading service as never being cleaned or a Spinks cataloger .... for that matter.

John Lorenzo

United States

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Additional note - I developed this cleaner "STRICTLY" for the sensitivity of copper coin surfaces.

Of course not - no effect on copper spots on Proofs or figerprints. Strictly for green verdigris and other light soils. The main goal was to make it as strong as possible and yet have no surface effects on the copper's original surface.

John Lorenzo

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Edit to add:

"In the interim ... Long live the use of Acetone in the U.K. ... hey ... its cheap but the real question is can it get past a grading service as never being cleaned or a Spinks cataloger .... for that matter."

I'm dumbstruck, of course acetone will get past the TPGCs! Nothing happens, except the coin is decontaminated! What's wrong with everyone, it's not cleaned, acetone cannot clean, only remove grime that may one day attack the coin!

Here's my two-penneth, if all perfect coins were decontaminated by acetone, we'd never see a fingerprint upon them ever again. If you get a 100 year old bronze coin in dazzling BU, how long before a 21C careless print makes its appearance? How much do you think the previous seller or auction house cared about handling pre delivery to you? Your prized BU penny from an auction house has just been handled more than a 2010 currency 10p of Elizabeth! It's a shame, but a fact.

I think it should be a routine thing that we decontaminate a coin before filing it into our own collections! I do, and always will! All 8 coins from my own collection are sat void of acidic human grease!

Edited by Coinery
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Every collector has his own opinion on cleaning. However I would be on this channel 24/7 debating/agreeing/questioning each collector's opinion. Be that as it may ... in terms of taking any cleaning procedure to a Mint State or Proof coin is highly questionable as every cleaning operation has the remote possibility of inducing hirlines under magnification to the surface. It should be done only if the coin has no real value (i.e., $$$ < 100) or the surfaces are extremely poor.

I agree with you acetone is probably my choice as the most economic. Some better options are xylol or even olive oil for particualrly long dwell times. A noted large cent collector (his Million Dollar collection being auctioned off soon - don't want to use names here and now) uses olive oil and a toothpick to remove strong verdigris such as copper oxides other than green and surficial. But to me this is messy and questionable on its effectiveness. I gave him a bottle. He liked it but was used to his own methods. Whatever ...

Other than the price ($20-25) no one has disliked my product.

In terms of your response just this one time - your imparting noticeable hairlines possibly on Mint State/Proof coins - not sure if you are damaging the CARTWHEEL EFFECT - I do have to question the notion you clean ALL your coins. Personally - I would never touch 200-300 year old patina on even a $10 coin if it was free of green verdigris. Any other alloy the point is moot.

Good luck ...

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It's all semantics. Acetone is still cleaning as it is removing dirt grease etc. from the surface of the coin. If you managed to scratch the coin whilst cleaning it with acetone the effect would be the same as any other medium put on the coin. The "cleaning" word seems to be misused in these forums as a way of putting down a coin. If there are obvious marks on a coin due to a cleaning process it doesn't really matter how they got there and the coin is damaged and if the cleaning process does not damage the coin in any way who really knows. I am not suggesting for one moment that coins shouldn't be cleaned with acetone but it is still cleaning as cleaning is the act of removing grease dirt etc. from the surface of an object. Perhaps we need to find a permitted cleaning agent and procedure?

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A 20th/21st century proof will not stand any kind of intervention, I 100% agree, and have said so endlessly on this forum...it is hoped they can be bought without grime? Earlier proofs? Well, you pay for what you get.

You mention Olive Oil, CJ, olive oil is not something to degrease a coin with, which is all I'm talking about. It can soften residue, sure...but you then need to remove it, as it also (eventually) becomes rank and gummy, which is why I no longer use olive oil without removing it afterward!

The best thing for removing olive oil?

As you say, each to his own, but I think your statement re an acetoned coin meeting a rejection by TPGCs was over the top to say the least!

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OZ, I think the term cleaning, is something that should be used to describe 'a procedure that removes something that's integral to the life-cycle of the coin,' such as age-related oxidisation for example? A lot of cleaning efforts that breach the above statement, are what we talk about in the negative.

What I'm saying re cleaning is, yes, acetone may 'technically' be cleaning, but only removing the things that are NOT integral to the lifecycle of the coin, and so preventing those things that ARE great about an old coin from being diminished!

When we store a coin in an ambient state, and handle them with kid gloves, are we not in a way protecting them from further contamination, maybe (technically) keeping them clean?

If we are, then my argument is we should start with maintenance, namely, remove damaging contaminants! This is different to removing something that's already occurred, such as an acid print, or removing an unfortunate tone by dipping, etc.

Edited by Coinery

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Well my 8 oz. sample is heading to Paulis tomorrow of the U.K.. So drop him an E-Mail if you are curious for his evaluation.

Most people like it but some people not knowing surface chemistry or chemical ingredients of industrial cleaning products usually remark ... not bad on surficial green oxidation but on ancient coins for example which were buried, etc. LOL.

My product will NOT impact a copper Proof surface or the cartwheel effect of an UNC copper. So the product was taken to the limits of cleaning a copper surface but not going beyond the point of altering its surface (i.e., tone, etc.). I really only give this to top numismatists that are in a need. I developed this about 2 years ago and sold maybe 40 bottles in the U.S. to friends of mine who are avid copper collectors and were looking and believed in my capabilities as my real job was previously an industrial R&D chemist and now I am a safety/environmental manager.

In the U.S. when collectors talk about the best coin cleaning product its the same denominator - Coin Care (THE ORIGINAL). The original had Freon TF now a banned substance in the consumer market and now as of December, 2013 with USEPA its banned in ALL businesses as its no longer able to be sold in the U.S.. Nothing cleaned copper safer & better.

Still not sure why I am giving Paulis a free sample - perhaps some rich guy sitting in the back row of a Spinks auction will buy some 10,000 pound copper pattern from the 14thC and say ... what me worry ... I have JPL's Coin Care. Its now worth 25,000 pounds after its restoration. It could also be your title ...

<VVBG>

JPL

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Not sure what integral to the life cycle of a coin means however cleaning a coin covers a simple wash with water thru scrubbing with steel wool. The decision to clean a coin must be taken on a coin by coin basis weighing up preservation issues, appearance etc. while minimizing the impact on the coin in question. Also with a caution if in doubt DONT.

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For no other reason than I have to share it somehow, someone (who shall remain nameless) on a coin collecting Facebook Group (to which some of us belong) has just recommended cleaning coins with ... Cillit Bang ..............

I've never tried it, maybe that's the answer?!! :o

Edited by Paulus

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Paulus interested to see how you go on and please try it on a couple of coppers.......... maybe with a couple of before and after pictures.

Dont see any problem at all using acetone if just a quick dip or gently used with a cotton bud.

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Not sure what integral to the life cycle of a coin means however cleaning a coin covers a simple wash with water thru scrubbing with steel wool. The decision to clean a coin must be taken on a coin by coin basis weighing up preservation issues, appearance etc. while minimizing the impact on the coin in question. Also with a caution if in dou

Well my 8 oz. sample is heading to Paulis tomorrow of the U.K.. So drop him an E-Mail if you are curious for his evaluation.

Most people like it but some people not knowing surface chemistry or chemical ingredients of industrial cleaning products usually remark ... not bad on surficial green oxidation but on ancient coins for example which were buried, etc. LOL.

My product will NOT impact a copper Proof surface or the cartwheel effect of an UNC copper. So the product was taken to the limits of cleaning a copper surface but not going beyond the point of altering its surface (i.e., tone, etc.). I really only give this to top numismatists that are in a need. I developed this about 2 years ago and sold maybe 40 bottles in the U.S. to friends of mine who are avid copper collectors and were looking and believed in my capabilities as my real job was previously an industrial R&D chemist and now I am a safety/environmental manager.

In the U.S. when collectors talk about the best coin cleaning product its the same denominator - Coin Care (THE ORIGINAL). The original had Freon TF now a banned substance in the consumer market and now as of December, 2013 with USEPA its banned in ALL businesses as its no longer able to be sold in the U.S.. Nothing cleaned copper safer & better.

Still not sure why I am giving Paulis a free sample - perhaps some rich guy sitting in the back row of a Spinks auction will buy some 10,000 pound copper pattern from the 14thC and say ... what me worry ... I have JPL's Coin Care. Its now worth 25,000 pounds after its restoration. It could also be your title ...

<VVBG>

JPL

Really interested and thank you for your post.

I am intrigued and for the last twelve month really just focused on copper pennies 1825-59.

I would not intentionally buy a coin to change its natural condition.....Would prefer a really nice one and problem free :)

However can you sell me a bottle and allow me to post the results , alternatively sure you will have some photographs ?.

Some copper pennies i have bought are considered scarce(other members)will agree,some may not.

Would be happy to send you some pictures ?.

Although scarce means some have problems and i would not consider sending to get slabbed and be rejected.

I would still prefer to conserve them in a good condition,not interested in selling them.

I have a few bronze also such as a nice 1862 halfpenny date,1862 three plumes etc that both have a small verd spot although fine + condition.

I mention the above as not looking at £20 coins that i would not of bought in the first place and understand not a remedy for corrosion.

Really without listing loads of varieties and condition would be really interested in any of your comments.

Thank you and Keep smiling .

Pete.

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To send to the U.K. its $35.00 which includes postage.

U.S. its $25.00.

PayPal E-Mail is johnmenc@optonline.net

John Lorenzo

Numismatist

United States

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Edit to add:

"In the interim ... Long live the use of Acetone in the U.K. ... hey ... its cheap but the real question is can it get past a grading service as never being cleaned or a Spinks cataloger .... for that matter."

I'm dumbstruck, of course acetone will get past the TPGCs! Nothing happens, except the coin is decontaminated! What's wrong with everyone, it's not cleaned, acetone cannot clean, only remove grime that may one day attack the coin!

Here's my two-penneth, if all perfect coins were decontaminated by acetone, we'd never see a fingerprint upon them ever again. If you get a 100 year old bronze coin in dazzling BU, how long before a 21C careless print makes its appearance? How much do you think the previous seller or auction house cared about handling pre delivery to you? Your prized BU penny from an auction house has just been handled more than a 2010 currency 10p of Elizabeth! It's a shame, but a fact.

I think it should be a routine thing that we decontaminate a coin before filing it into our own collections! I do, and always will! All 8 coins from my own collection are sat void of acidic human grease!

Although I'd hazard a guess that the vast majority of fingerprints on such coins, appeared during, or shortly after, the brief time they were in actual circulation. So the fingerprint is most likely from someone long dead.

I'm not sure how careless or otherwise staff at specialist coin auction houses are. Do you have any evidence to support an assertion that they handle them carelessly?

What does bug me are those endless pics on e bay with a coin photograohed in somebody's hand.

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Additional note - I developed this cleaner "STRICTLY" for the sensitivity of copper coin surfaces.

Of course not - no effect on copper spots on Proofs or figerprints. Strictly for green verdigris and other light soils. The main goal was to make it as strong as possible and yet have no surface effects on the copper's original surface.

John Lorenzo

Do you have any before and after photos you could upload, John?

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