Slabbed As Gold, And They're Not!

[Chris Perkins]

I sometimes have a bone to pick with slabbing, as do many true collectors and dealers that prefer to trust their own grading/attribution ability more than that of others. No need to dwell on that.

But what I have detested for years and even more so now since the RM have started trying to cash in on it too, is gold plating! The gold plating of silver proof coins in order to fool the public into thinking that it makes them special in some way, so that they can then charge twice as much. It's utterly deplorable and I refuse to give gold plated proofs the time of day in "Collectors' Coins: Decimal Issues of the UK" and any future publications.

Combine sloppy TPG (or possibly slab forgery, I haven't checked) and you end up with this: Gold plated proofs slabbed as gold proofs by PCGS. This email did the rounds on Tuesday. I got it, as did some other BNTA members (with stupid 20mb of unsolicited attachments). Michael Williams he calls himself.

I berated him for sending 20mb of attachments and told him I wanted nothing to do with it (somehow it didn't seem right and there was a distinct smell of rat in the air). Richard Anderson of Weighton Coin Wonders identified them as the plated proofs and informed the BNTA.

This is the full email (I've attached a single image at the end):

I HAVE (3) 2012 DIAMOND JUBILEE GOLD PROOF FIVE POUND COINS FOR SALE . THEY ARE NOT A SET , THEY ARE INDIVIDUAL COINS.

I HAVE ATTACHED SOME PHOTOS OF EACH INDIVIDUAL COIN FOR YOU AND OF THE 3 COINS TOGETHER .

(MORE PHOTO'S AVAILABLE IF NEEDED)

IN 2012 TO COMMEMORATE THE QUEENS DIAMOND JUBILEE THE ROYAL MINT STRUCK A VERY LIMITED ISSUE SOLID 22 CARAT GOLD PROOF £5 FIVE POUND CROWN COIN.

THE REVERSE DESIGN DEPICTS AN EARLY PORTRAIT OF QUEEN ELIZABETH II WITH FOLIAGE WHICH IS A SPECIFIC REFERENCE TO QUEEN VICTORIA THE ONLY OTHER MONARCH TO ACHIEVE HER DIAMOND JUBILEE.THE OBVERSE DESIGN DEPICTS QUEEN ELIZABETH II IN THE PRESENT WEARING GARTER ROBES.

BOTH THE REVERSE AND OBVERSE DESIGNS HAVE BEEN DESIGNED BY IAN RANK BROADLEY FRBS.

THESE LEGAL TENDER COINS HAVE BEEN STRUCK TO PROOF QUALITY USING SPECIALLY PREPARED DIES AND HIGHLY POLISHED BLANKS.

EACH OF THE 3 COINS HAVE BEEN INDIVIDUALLY SLABBED AND GRADED BY THE WORLD FAMOUS COIN GRADING COMPANY PCGS AND ARE HIGHLY SORT AFTER BY COIN COLLECTORS AROUND THE WORLD . THEY ARE GUARANTEED AUTHENTIC AND GRADED PR69DCAM ,THEN SLABBED WITHIN A TAMPER PROOF CASE BY PCGS .

THERE IS ONLY 6 COINS OF THIS TYPE IN THE WORLD THAT HAVE BEEN GRADED PR69DCAM BY PCGS WITH NO HIGHER GRADES AVAILABLE .

THE LONDON COIN COMPANY HAS 1 OF THESES COINS FOR SALE FOR AROUND £2600 (including P+P)

SPECIFICATION OF EACH INDIVIDUAL COIN

YEAR OF ISSUE 2012

DENOMINATION £5

WEIGHT 39.94 grams

DIAMETER 38.61 mm

METAL GOLD

CARAT SOLID 22 CARAT GOLD

FINISH PROOF

ISSUE LIMITS 3,850

PCGS COIN# 651395

PCGS CERTIFICATE NO' # COIN 1 - 17235831

COIN 2 - 17235832

COIN 3 - 17235833

GRADED PCGS PR69DCAM

HOLDER TYPE STANDARD TAMPER PROOF

PCGS POPULATION 6

[Paulus]

That is an absolute disgrace, and I would have thought, a crime?

[copper123]

Is the london coin company anything to do with the london mint office or any of their other rip off promotion sites?

[Nordle11]

That is an absolute disgrace, and I would have thought, a crime?

It's so disconcerting to hear one of the leading slabbing companies is grading plated coins as solid gold.

Who to trust in this minefield of deceptiveness?!

[Peter]

Love the dialogue

Chris you are a star.....sorry about hedgehog gate.

[Chris Perkins]

Is the london coin company anything to do with the london mint office or any of their other rip off promotion sites?

The London Coin Company are actually one of the better coin sellers with the word 'London' in their title.

They had nothing to do with this scam, they were simply referenced in the email as they happened to be offering a real gold one.

Peter - thanks. Hedgehog gate?

[numismatist]

PCGS " Certificate Verification " says

" The Cert is not available for display "

if you try those 3 numbers Chris gives

[Chris Perkins]

Yes, I tried that too just now. I expect they've pulled them as they were reported? Unless they are fake slabs, which is also not unheard of. The BNTA email suggests that they are genuine PCGS that were incorrectly labelled.

[Peckris]

I wouldn't trust any seller using "HIGHLY SORT AFTER" any further than I could throw them.

[TomGoodheart]

I wonder if he bought them as gold? And ... this may be a stupid question but, isn't the weight (or thickness) of the gold ones different from the silver?

Enough that a TPGS should be able to tell the difference at least ...?

[Chris Perkins]

The thickness is probably the same to the naked eye, but certainly the weight and feel would be quite different.

[sound]

Chris,

What a star you are for highlighting this.

Should we really be surprised? No. For some time now it has been apparent that the RM are really just a marketing company.

I think it's just a salutary lesson in why in recent times, things we are told are collectable are not.

Skepticism is a very reliable quality in this context.

Mark

[Chris Perkins]

The BNTA have told PCGS about it (who I'm sure made a genuine mistake) and have probably reported the would-be seller to the police.

I hit the reply-all button and suggested to all the BNTA members that we should really be complaining to the RM for making such articles of dubious repute in the very first place.

I really want to be proud of the Royal Mint once again, is that too much to ask?

[Peter]

Is the london coin company anything to do with the london mint office or any of their other rip off promotion sites?

The London Coin Company are actually one of the better coin sellers with the word 'London' in their title.

They had nothing to do with this scam, they were simply referenced in the email as they happened to be offering a real gold one.

Peter - thanks. Hedgehog gate?

You found and saved a hedgehog.I posted a Gypsy recipe in good humour....you didn't take it very well.Oh well I have never hurt anything apart from my Dodo skin wallet.

[Chris Perkins]

That was bloody years ago with the Igor the Igel (German for Hedgehog)! I had forgotten all about it.

[Peter]

I also have a throng made out of baby rabbit skins.We needed a few

[Chris Perkins]

A throng? That's even worse on the old head-cinema that a thong!

[thelondoncoincompany]

Hi

We would like to clarify what actually happened, a client of ours Graded some of the 2012 Diamond Jubilee Silver Proof £5 plated in Gold and were submitted to PCGS for Grading and can confirm the coins and slabbs are genuine.

PCGS labelled them as the Gold version incorrectly by mistake, the seller of the coins sold them to this person Michael Williams as the £5 Silver Proof Coins Plated in Gold versions as the seller sold them with the blue boxes and Royal Mint Certificates of Authenticity also showing them as Silver Gold versions and sold for from memory £600-£700 for all three coins with the seller not knowing what the buyer was up to and oblivious to the mistake PCGS had made.

Once the buyer who new exactly what he was doing did the rounds to different dealers and once The London Coin Company were made aware of it we contacted PCGS to get them to remove the Cert Numbers to make sure it was brought to collectors attention.

We as an official authorised dealer of PCGS in the UK and Europe only sell genuine PCGS Slabbed and Graded Coins and are the largest PCGS Dealer in the United Kingdon and possibly Europe.

We hope we have clarified and cleared up a few things for contributors to this thread.

With best wishes

The London Coin Company

[thelondoncoincompany]

Is the london coin company anything to do with the london mint office or any of their other rip off promotion sites?

The London Coin Company does not have anything to do with The London Mint Office, we are a seperate company.

With best wishes

The London Coin Company

[Chris Perkins]

Thank-you The London Coin Company.

[bagerap]

Chris, did Michael Williams give a Liverpool address?

[Chris Perkins]

He didn't give a postal address, just a Hotmail email address.

[bagerap]

4/5 years ago I ran across a Liverpudlian small time dealer of the same name who had interesting business ethics. My mistake was not running him over.

[Peckris]

Is the london coin company anything to do with the london mint office or any of their other rip off promotion sites?

The London Coin Company does not have anything to do with The London Mint Office, we are a seperate company.

With best wishes

The London Coin Company

I'm sure you're right. It would be nice, though, if you could spell.

[HeavyT]

Hi,

Just to make people aware that one of these coins recently appeared on eBay and sold for £800 until the buyer (me!) realised something wasn't quite right:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PCGS-5-GOLD-COIN-/111400477213?ssPageName=ADME%3AX%3ARTQ%3AGB%3A1123&ViewItem=&item=111400477213&nma=true&si=bzT%252FVK88kdpahxHq%252BbdY6nBF210%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

The PCGS website is still listing them as gold: http://www.pcgs.com/pop/valueview.aspx?s=651395, that

needs to be amended or someone is going to end up paying for silver at the price of gold.

Not sure PCGS will bother to do anything, from experience they never acknowledge emails let alone reply!