Accumulator Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 The 1953 mule is the second one sold in a year (the previous through DNW), so they are around. The problem seems to be in identifying the VIP sets at a glance, based on the style of the case or the even number of coins. The DNW set was 9 coins in a red case, while the London Coins set was 10 coins in a green case!The 1922 penny 192A is far rarer than the 1864 crosslet. Remember that not a single example turned up in VR Court's sample of 675,000 pennies. Crosslets aren't uncommon, though much rarer in top grade and certainly available at a price! Quote
Peckris Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 The 1953 mule is the second one sold in a year (the previous through DNW), so they are around. The problem seems to be in identifying the VIP sets at a glance, based on the style of the case or the even number of coins. The DNW set was 9 coins in a red case, while the London Coins set was 10 coins in a green case!The 1922 penny 192A is far rarer than the 1864 crosslet. Remember that not a single example turned up in VR Court's sample of 675,000 pennies. Crosslets aren't uncommon, though much rarer in top grade and certainly available at a price!The 1864 penny in BU is arguably as rare as the 1922 penny. It's often acknowledged to be the rarest bun to find in top grade. Quote
Accumulator Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 The 1953 mule is the second one sold in a year (the previous through DNW), so they are around. The problem seems to be in identifying the VIP sets at a glance, based on the style of the case or the even number of coins. The DNW set was 9 coins in a red case, while the London Coins set was 10 coins in a green case!The 1922 penny 192A is far rarer than the 1864 crosslet. Remember that not a single example turned up in VR Court's sample of 675,000 pennies. Crosslets aren't uncommon, though much rarer in top grade and certainly available at a price!The 1864 penny in BU is arguably as rare as the 1922 penny. It's often acknowledged to be the rarest bun to find in top grade.I would probably accept that BU examples of the 1864 are as rare as ANY examples of the 1922. Quote
Varietalis Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 Someone with the CGS username of Johnboy now seems to own the £7K 1953 mule penny. Hats off to him for landing it. I'm told the '53 VIP proofs were pre-production sets hence the penny is, I suppose, a pattern proof. I wonder if they were minted prior to the commencement of the standard proof sets' production run... we'll probably never know unless there is something in the RM archives to explain it all. Quote
Peter Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 OK about the mule 1953 1dHowever it would never float my boat. Quote
Accumulator Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 It floats my boat!I understood that production of VIP proofs is generally a separate activity from the minting of coins for circulation to the public (whether as currency or proof sets). I could be wrong though.I don't know about 1953 but, based on the appearance of coins in auctions and elsewhere over the years, I'd assume that no more than around 10-20 sets were produced each year. I would expect 1953 to be the same. They are desirable because of their mule status, but probably about as numerous as VIP proofs for other years. Quote
Gary D Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 Someone with the CGS username of Johnboy now seems to own the £7K 1953 mule penny. Hats off to him for landing it. I'm told the '53 VIP proofs were pre-production sets hence the penny is, I suppose, a pattern proof. I wonder if they were minted prior to the commencement of the standard proof sets' production run... we'll probably never know unless there is something in the RM archives to explain it all. I spoke to someone at a London Coins auction some years ago who had a 1953 mule and they had picked it up from a normal proof set. Quote
VickySilver Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 And I have an older SNC circular with one for sale.... Quote
Peckris Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 It floats my boat!I understood that production of VIP proofs is generally a separate activity from the minting of coins for circulation to the public (whether as currency or proof sets). I could be wrong though.I don't know about 1953 but, based on the appearance of coins in auctions and elsewhere over the years, I'd assume that no more than around 10-20 sets were produced each year. I would expect 1953 to be the same. They are desirable because of their mule status, but probably about as numerous as VIP proofs for other years.Mine too - the difference between the two types is more distinctive IMO than the beaded/toothed border 1860s, where the toothed border is sometimes mistaken for a beaded. You couldn't make any such mistake with the 1953. Quote
Chris Perkins Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 Friend of mine has a VIP 1949 set, inc proof 1949 Threepence. Quote
VickySilver Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 (edited) Me too Maybe another set or two also Edited March 6, 2014 by VickySilver Quote
Accumulator Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 Friend of mine has a VIP 1949 set, inc proof 1949 Threepence.I have a VIP 1949 penny and have a seen a few others around. The 1960's VIP coins seem the hardest to find. Quote
RChris Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 What's the thoughts on the £2808.00 (including commssion) that the1919KN penny sold for? Comparing and considering the condition of that one (Lot 1887 ) I'm wondering now if it makes their "1 of 8 finest known" on offer at £3250 a reasonable buy.....? Quote
azda Posted March 7, 2014 Author Posted March 7, 2014 May not have been pulled. All of the coins and prices realized in this sale do not appear to have been posted yet.As i found out today, any lot number that has'nt been posted means it has'nt been sold. I emailed Semra Cetim as i was interested in a price of a lot which was'nt listed and she said that if the price was'nt avaliable then it was'nt sold Quote
Coppers Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 Did the same and got the same answer. A lot I was interested in apparently had a reserve on it at 3 to 4 times the estimate. Quote
Nordle11 Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 Did the same and got the same answer. A lot I was interested in apparently had a reserve on it at 3 to 4 times the estimate.Ouch..Did they tell you the reserve price for any of the lots? Quote
Coppers Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 A number of American auction firms actually post the reserve price -- not sure how many UK firms employ the same practice. Quote
azda Posted March 7, 2014 Author Posted March 7, 2014 There was a low and too end estimate on what i was checking, so obviously the start price was too high for the coin in the 1st place which also helps Quote
RChris Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 What's the thoughts on the £2808.00 (including commssion) that the1919KN penny sold for? Comparing and considering the condition of that one (Lot 1887 ) I'm wondering now if it makes their "1 of 8 finest known" on offer at £3250 a reasonable buy.....?I'll answer my own post then..... .......reason I ask is I bid £2250 on the 1919KN (at the £1-2K estimate I think it was) and thought I was sure to get it. When I last mentioned the LC example on offer at £3250 in another thread, most thought it well over priced......so is this the way prices are going for top grade pennies? Quote
VickySilver Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 Must be me, but I can't find its sale. 2800 over the top IMO and 2k should have been fair. My recall was that it was NOT an exceptional coin. I am a bit suspicious of photos from LCA and if spending that much money am of a mind to have seen the specimen in hand or at least had a representative to do so. This is a scarcer date not doubt, but somehow see it up for sale more frequently at auction in "top grades" more often than we should. Quote
Accumulator Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 What's the thoughts on the £2808.00 (including commssion) that the1919KN penny sold for? Comparing and considering the condition of that one (Lot 1887 ) I'm wondering now if it makes their "1 of 8 finest known" on offer at £3250 a reasonable buy.....?I'll answer my own post then..... .......reason I ask is I bid £2250 on the 1919KN (at the £1-2K estimate I think it was) and thought I was sure to get it. When I last mentioned the LC example on offer at £3250 in another thread, most thought it well over priced......so is this the way prices are going for top grade pennies?Certainly the LC coin looks nice, but it's been sitting around for a while (at least a year) which would leave me slightly suspicious that that it doesn't view quite so well in hand. Surprising they don't put it in one of their own auctions, as it's a fair amount of money to be tied up for so long. Quote
RChris Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 (edited) Must be me, but I can't find its sale. 2800 over the top IMO and 2k should have been fair. My recall was that it was NOT an exceptional coin. I am a bit suspicious of photos from LCA and if spending that much money am of a mind to have seen the specimen in hand or at least had a representative to do so. This is a scarcer date not doubt, but somehow see it up for sale more frequently at auction in "top grades" more often than we should.It's here.... http://www.londoncoins.co.uk/?page=Pastresults&searchterm=1919+KN+penny&searchtype=1I can't have been the under bidder either at £2250 so there's certainly a demand.The £3250 example has been on offer for about 2 years to my knowledge but it was on there at £3K when I first saw it. A year ago I sent an offer to Ms Cretin of £2.5K which was refused and they immediately increased it to £3250 !! Edited March 8, 2014 by RChris Quote
VickySilver Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 (edited) Well thanks for that, must be a bit of brain fade.....I think that is only an average struck obverse, decent reverse with better than average lustre. I still place that at 2k and think you should shop a bit & be patient. These auctions, and particularly the onlines (such as DNW) have been verging on lunatic prices. Just try and guess how much that would have gone for at Heritage with a slabbed Red and Brown 64 with lots of flowery descriptions!!! Edited March 8, 2014 by VickySilver Quote
RChris Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 Well thanks for that, must be a bit of brain fade.....I think that is only an average struck obverse, decent reverse with better than average lustre. I still place that at 2k and think you should shop a bit & be patient. These auctions, and particularly the onlines (such as DNW) have been verging on lunatic prices. Just try and guess how much that would have gone for at Heritage with a slabbed Red and Brown 64 with lots of flowery descriptions!!!Patience isn't one of my better atributes.....my problem is keeping track of which auctions are coming up. A diary page on the forum would be really useful. Quote
azda Posted March 8, 2014 Author Posted March 8, 2014 Well thanks for that, must be a bit of brain fade.....I think that is only an average struck obverse, decent reverse with better than average lustre. I still place that at 2k and think you should shop a bit & be patient. These auctions, and particularly the onlines (such as DNW) have been verging on lunatic prices. Just try and guess how much that would have gone for at Heritage with a slabbed Red and Brown 64 with lots of flowery descriptions!!! Patience isn't one of my better atributes.....my problem is keeping track of which auctions are coming up. A diary page on the forum would be really useful.But then you'd be competing not only against the forum users but every other person that drops onto the forrum Quote
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