Couple Of Questions About Elizabeth Ii Farthings

[Andriulis]

Hello,

could anyone help in my trying to understand British coins, please?

I do have two questions about farthings of queen Elizabeth II:

1. What symbolize cross in the beginning (end) of legend on obverse?

2. Why wren was chosen as reverse design for farthings?

Thanks

P.S. Sorry for my bad English - that's not my native language.

[Peckris]

The wren was first used on the farthings of Edward VIII (1937) but these were never issued due to the Abdication. However, the design was kept for all farthings from then on, the first time Britannia had not been used since 1672. The smallest British bird for the smallest British denomination, would be the reason.

As for the + in the obverse legend, that had been used many times on medieval coins, so I'm guessing that it has a Christian symbolism? Not absolutely sure though.

[Rob]

The initial cross goes back to Saxon times, when I assume it had religious significance. The cross used on medieval coins varied (+ fleury, patonce, pattee etc) by which time you would suspect it was used as an identifier rather than a religious symbol. It's use on coins of the present reign will be a resurrection of a design feature as opposed to having any significance.

[Gary D]

The initial cross goes back to Saxon times, when I assume it had religious significance. The cross used on medieval coins varied (+ fleury, patonce, pattee etc) by which time you would suspect it was used as an identifier rather than a religious symbol. It's use on coins of the present reign will be a resurrection of a design feature as opposed to having any significance.

On Elizabeth II coins the legend goes all the way around the edge and is mostly in latin. The cross is a simple way of indicating the start and end of he legend for us lot that don't read latin.......maybe.

[Coinery]

The smallest British bird is the Goldcrest! Oh, you city boys!

Edited November 6, 2013 by Coinery

[Andriulis]

The initial cross goes back to Saxon times, when I assume it had religious significance. The cross used on medieval coins varied (+ fleury, patonce, pattee etc) by which time you would suspect it was used as an identifier rather than a religious symbol. It's use on coins of the present reign will be a resurrection of a design feature as opposed to having any significance.

On Elizabeth II coins the legend goes all the way around the edge and is mostly in latin. The cross is a simple way of indicating the start and end of he legend for us lot that don't read latin.......maybe.

I've thought about this, but there are some mismatches:

1. + used on all coins but crowns. Why not on crowns? There are free place for that in legend, but it is free.

2. It's natural to start reading from top, i.e. name of queen. All other separators between words are dots. So, why not in that place?

That's my first steps in English coins, so, I try to understand them.

[Andriulis]

The smallest British bird is the Goldcrest! Oh, you city boys!

Oh, I was so happy with logical answer and you have crushed that...

[Rob]

The smallest British bird is the Goldcrest! Oh, you city boys!

Peck's from Scouseland. You don't get a lot of goldcrests in Liverpool or anywhere else up here. In fact it is only 30 years since I saw a duck for the first time on the River Irwell having waited 6 or 7 years for such an event..

[Coinery]

The smallest British bird is the Goldcrest! Oh, you city boys!

Peck's from Scouseland. You don't get a lot of goldcrests in Liverpool or anywhere else up here. In fact it is only 30 years since I saw a duck for the first time on the River Irwell having waited 6 or 7 years for such an event..

I suppose they at least have Beatles in Liverpool, and you didn't do so bad with the Hollies and, of course, The Smiths, amongst many other greats, in old Man'!

[Coinery]

The smallest British bird is the Goldcrest! Oh, you city boys!

Oh, I was so happy with logical answer and you have crushed that...

Ooops!

[brg5658]

The smallest British bird is the Goldcrest! Oh, you city boys!

The Goldcrest is also darned handsome...

[davidrj]

Peck's from Scouseland.

I'm a fellow Scouser, I only remember sparrows and pigeons when I was a kid in Bootle, plenty of sport for the jigger rabbits

[copper123]

Rob is far far behind the times - I have seen kingfishers in the irwell never mind ruddy ducks

[Peckris]

Peck's from Scouseland.

I'm a fellow Scouser, I only remember sparrows and pigeons when I was a kid in Bootle, plenty of sport for the jigger rabbits

Last time I was in Crosby (2010?) there were pigeons a-plenty, but not so many sparrows now! The wren has often been thought our smallest bird so maybe that was what they thought in 1937?

[Rob]

Rob is far far behind the times - I have seen kingfishers in the irwell never mind ruddy ducks

I'm not. That was the early 80s when the only thing you would see on the river was a 3 piece suite and a table floating downstream. All that was missing was the TV and viewer. Since then I know someone pulled a 17lb pike out of the Irwell by the Crescent. Things have come a long, long way since the orange river Irk (paint factory) met the purple Irwell (dye factory) below Victoria station.

[brg5658]

I always presumed you had hummingbirds in Europe...just read (and learned) today that they are found only in N and S America. Interesting...

[Flash]

The smallest British bird is the Goldcrest! Oh, you city boys!

Or the Firecrest, two different species both the same size.

I was a serious twitcher for many years with a "British list" of around 480.

British list is the birding equivalent of a coin collection but it's probably slightly more expensive to attain a decent list than a decent collection.

[Red Riley]

The smallest British bird is the Goldcrest! Oh, you city boys!

Damn, I was going to say that! A couple of years ago I had wrens and goldcrests nesting in the same tree in my garden. Difficult to judge which was the smaller...

Edited November 7, 2013 by Red Riley

[Colin G.]

The logic behind it was the smallest bird for the smallest denomination..perhaps it was a lot to do with the wren being a very common small bird widely known by the population whereas the other two are less well known.

Alternatively a baby wren is smaller than a goldcrest or firecrest

[Peckris]

The logic behind it was the smallest bird for the smallest denomination..perhaps it was a lot to do with the wren being a very common small bird widely known by the population whereas the other two are less well known.

Alternatively a baby wren is smaller than a goldcrest or firecrest

I think that's the crux of it - until I read this topic, I didn't know the wren WASN'T our smallest bird!

[Flash]

Not only is it not our smallest bird it is actually the only representative of it's genus in the old world being primarily a new world species that in ornithological terms was probably a recent colonist, last 10,000 years. So compared to the Goldcrest and Firecrest it's not only bigger but it's also less British.

It was or is one of Britains commonest birds so perhaps another reason for this choice that of the top 5 commonest birds in 1936 it would have been the most readily recognisable from a slightly stylised small drawing.

[Coinery]

...top 5 commonest birds in 1936 it would have been the most readily recognisable from a slightly stylised small drawing.

Here's our answer I reckon!

[copper123]

I read somewhere the wren is the most common british bird so that maybe its big claim to fame now.

people don't believe it as they say they don't see them , they are a bit reclusive and tend not to be as obvious as other birds like robins and sparrows

[Paulus]

I read somewhere the wren is the most common british bird so that maybe its big claim to fame now.

people don't believe it as they say they don't see them , they are a bit reclusive and tend not to be as obvious as other birds like robins and sparrows

I don't believe it!

[azda]

Gotta love how this thread rapidly evolved into ornothology, this was from a coin question. Amazing P.s Stuart, i knew it was that birdie as well

Edited December 5, 2013 by azda