Grading Advice1758 Shilling

[Gary]

Hello all,

would like a second opinion on the grade of this 1758 Shilling. Have looked at the dealer sites and I would place it around the VF mark. Just wanted an opinion from people more experienced in grading the coins before 1799. Thanks Gents.

[Paulus]

Approaching GVF for me

[Peckris]

Hello all,

would like a second opinion on the grade of this 1758 Shilling. Have looked at the dealer sites and I would place it around the VF mark. Just wanted an opinion from people more experienced in grading the coins before 1799. Thanks Gents.

I'd say the obverse was VF if you're being strict, but the reverse is clearly better. GVF at least.

Do bear in mind that 1758 is by far the commonest date for shillings and good ones come up quite regularly. But that one would fit nicely in my own collection if the price was right.

[Gary]

Thanks for the quick responses gents.

Sorry Peck but this is one for my Collection and I think the price of £28.50 including postage was very reasonable. I really like it as it has nice even toning of the type that you would expect from a coin this old.

[Coinery]

Just a twitch off VF ob...a very much better reverse.

Easy peasy VF overall! Probably a tiny twitch over VF!

PS twitch is what you have to do AND apply as a grade when assessing hammered IMHO

[NRP]

VF strictly speaking, though realistically most dealers would say GVF

[Gary]

Just a twitch off VF ob...a very much better reverse.

Easy peasy VF overall! Probably a tiny twitch over VF!

PS twitch is what you have to do AND apply as a grade when assessing hammered IMHO

a new grading term is born "a twitch"

will go with VF.

On another note I have just been comparing this new addition to another example I have and would now like to know if there are several dies for this year. I understand that the 1758 shilling was minted for several years following 1758. I am asking because I have noticed on the better coin that 2 hair curls are missing and the reverse Harp on one has 7 strings and the other 8. I only have the ESC and and there is no mention of Varieties for this date.

Just answered the Harp String question myself should have looked at Coincraft Cat first, too hasty

Edited October 1, 2013 by Gary

[Paulus]

No mention in Spink either, what does Coincraft say Gary?

[Rob]

No better than VF because you are starting to lose the eye definition

[Gary]

No mention in Spink either, what does Coincraft say Gary?

Hi Paulus it suggests that the number of Harp strings were used for Die identification and that the number of strings varies through out the George II shilling series.

[Paulus]

No mention in Spink either, what does Coincraft say Gary?

Hi Paulus it suggests that the number of Harp strings were used for Die identification and that the number of strings varies through out the George II shilling series.

Thanks, I find it surprising then that one/both aren't listed as varieties (in ESC and Spink), any idea on relative scarcity?

Edited October 1, 2013 by Paulus

[Peter]

ESC was way before Coincraft.

Spink just dip their toes into varieties.

It is only when you dig around a series that varieties appear.

[Paulus]

Well here's my 8 string (I think) effort, trying to decide whether the 7 string qualifies for my type collection!

Edited October 1, 2013 by Paulus

[VickySilver]

Plain old VF seems a bit harsh when there is still some apparent lustre about the devices on reverse which is also much better in my opinion. 28.5 sounds a fair price there.

[Peckris]

Thanks for the quick responses gents.

Sorry Peck but this is one for my Collection and I think the price of £28.50 including postage was very reasonable. I really like it as it has nice even toning of the type that you would expect from a coin this old.

For that price you did EXTREMELY well! You could pay twice that for a coin like it.

[Paulus]

Thanks for the quick responses gents.

Sorry Peck but this is one for my Collection and I think the price of £28.50 including postage was very reasonable. I really like it as it has nice even toning of the type that you would expect from a coin this old.

For that price you did EXTREMELY well! You could pay twice that for a coin like it.

I agree, that's a bargain price!

[Rob]

I know we are looking at George II here, but think that the similar work done by Jackson-Kent during much of the 1950s and early 60s researching the coinage of William III could give reasonable parallels. One of the conclusions drawn was that you could infer nothing from the number of harp strings as you typically get a small distribution around the mean number found. They are unlikely to be chronological indicators because you don't get an even distribution amongst 12 varieties if monthly, though could conceivably be quarterly. The grounds for thinking they could be used for die identification is a bit suspect IMO, given their tendency to fill relatively easily on the die? e.g. my 1697B halfcrown has half a harp string, though clearly must have started with more than a partial string.

In the hammered period there were situations which demanded die identification (or at least engraver id) because any control over them was remote because they may have been a one moneyer mint for example, or in the case of the Civil War, the engraver followed the troops around. These people also struck the coins. Here we are talking about a number of workers employed at the Tower to produce dies. They would have no control over the number of coins struck using those dies, so this begs the question as to why it would be necessary to identify the die and not the person making the coins. Obviously this isn't conclusive, but it dosn't quite add up to my mind.

[Coinery]

What a life! I know it's a little off topic, but my phone has again jammed on this forum! I can't switch my phone off, escape from this thread, nothing, and I've still got half a battery remaining! My phone going flat was the only way out last time!

I can't call, text, or use my battery up in any other way...grrrrrrr!

[Coinery]

Really odd that my phone allowed me to post the above, it won't allow me to do anything else whatsoever!

[Peter]

Now I have heard some excuses.

[Rob]

Oh the joys of those 'must have' faults.

[azda]

What a life! I know it's a little off topic, but my phone has again jammed on this forum! I can't switch my phone off, escape from this thread, nothing, and I've still got half a battery remaining! My phone going flat was the only way out last time!

I can't call, text, or use my battery up in any other way...grrrrrrr!

There is an emergency reset for those wee Problems Stuart. Hold the middle button and the power button together and wait for about 5-10 seconds, it will power off, on reboot it should be ok.

[azda]

Hello all,

would like a second opinion on the grade of this 1758 Shilling. Have looked at the dealer sites and I would place it around the VF mark. Just wanted an opinion from people more experienced in grading the coins before 1799. Thanks Gents.

VF OBV, REV better

Edited October 1, 2013 by azda

[Coinery]

What a life! I know it's a little off topic, but my phone has again jammed on this forum! I can't switch my phone off, escape from this thread, nothing, and I've still got half a battery remaining! My phone going flat was the only way out last time!

I can't call, text, or use my battery up in any other way...grrrrrrr!

There is an emergency reset for those wee Problems Stuart. Hold the middle button and the power button together and wait for about 5-10 seconds, it will power off, on reboot it should be ok.

If I could've but read that...I couldn't update the thread!

my phone just takes pictures when I do that...so I've just spent the last hour taking pictures to flatten the battery!

Thanks for all the sympathy, gents!

[pokal02]

I would have said AVF myself, although I know I tend to be harsh on VF coins and lenient on F (probably because when I started upgrading my Charles II crowns in the late 90s, Spink tended to quote them as £75 F & £450 VF - subconsciously the huge % difference has stuck in my mind!)