Removal of 5p and 10p from circulation

[Rob]

I first heard about this recovery programme at the end of last year. I must say that I view it with no great surprise and a little disdain at the same time. I mean it's a sensible move and it turns a tidy little profit no doubt (although I like the mention of all the old 5p and 10p coins getting the melting pot treatment too, that would be a great idea, surprised they haven't thought of that one).

However, it really does show the depths the currency has plunged to. First in the 1920s the sterling silver was hoarded up shortly after it was oused by the .500 silver. One article I read from the 1930s said by 1932 there was hardly any pre-1920 silver left to be found (I wish I could relocate that article). Then in 1947 the .500 went out and cupronickel came in. The last vestiges of silver vanishing in the late 60s/70s silver price rises. Then in the early 1990s the coins had to be reduced in size to make sure they wouldn't exceed their face value. Now they've been switched to nickel-plated steel, and the cupro-nickel coins are being removed in advance before they exceed their face value. The question this raises is, what next? How long until the humble 5p falls in value so that even nickel-plated steel starts edging over face? Plastic?

1920-1947 = 17 years (although war helped massively to oust silver earlier than it did elsewhere).

They could theoretically have lasted to 1967 like elsewhere. (47 years)

1947-1992 = 45 years (from 1967 this would be 25 years)

1992-2012 = 20 years (although some of the 2011s appear to be steel)

The time period between changing compositions getting shorter, or what?

Nah, it's an illusion created by people who can't count. Don't understand why 1947-92 and 1992-2012 didn't get the same treatment.

[scott]

why havn't they recalled the copper stuff yet?

[Peckris]

why havn't they recalled the copper stuff yet?

What planet have you been living on scott? It's been steel since the early 1990s!

[TomGoodheart]

Why don't they just stop issuing all the commemorative tat? And buy back those Churchill crowns at 25p? That might work.

[Coinery]

why havn't they recalled the copper stuff yet?

What planet have you been living on scott? It's been steel since the early 1990s!

I didn't know that! Not that I should, of course! Really?

[Nick]

why havn't they recalled the copper stuff yet?

What planet have you been living on scott? It's been steel since the early 1990s!

I didn't know that! Not that I should, of course! Really?

Yep, copper plated steel since 1992.

[Peter]

Pre 1992 is the magic date...like Stuart should I know that?

[scott]

i am still getting pre 1992 pennies and 2p's which are made of copper

[ski]

I sometimes like to hold a Double Florin in one hand and a 20p in the other

i also like to hold a double florin in one hand.............but i dont fanny around with 20p's

And buy back those Churchill crowns at 25p?

theyre worth that much???....

[Coinery]

why havn't they recalled the copper stuff yet?

What planet have you been living on scott? It's been steel since the early 1990s!

I didn't know that! Not that I should, of course! Really?

Yep, copper plated steel since 1992.

Wow, makes me feel sorry for the future generations of collectors! Imagine the questions on post-decimal.com in 50 years time! "How exactly do you store a piece of steel"? "Can I dip it?" "My tuppence has developed a series of nasty orange bubbles, what can I do?"

[Rob]

why havn't they recalled the copper stuff yet?

What planet have you been living on scott? It's been steel since the early 1990s!

I didn't know that! Not that I should, of course! Really?

Yep, copper plated steel since 1992.

Wow, makes me feel sorry for the future generations of collectors! Imagine the questions on post-decimal.com in 50 years time! "How exactly do you store a piece of steel"? "Can I dip it?" "My tuppence has developed a series of nasty orange bubbles, what can I do?"

I already have that concern with my Huth double florin.

[Sword]

why havn't they recalled the copper stuff yet?

What planet have you been living on scott? It's been steel since the early 1990s!

I didn't know that! Not that I should, of course! Really?

Yep, copper plated steel since 1992.

Wow, makes me feel sorry for the future generations of collectors! Imagine the questions on post-decimal.com in 50 years time! "How exactly do you store a piece of steel"? "Can I dip it?" "My tuppence has developed a series of nasty orange bubbles, what can I do?"

No real problem as they are plated with copper. If the copper is worn through, then the coin might not be worth collecting for 5000 years

[Coinery]

why havn't they recalled the copper stuff yet?

What planet have you been living on scott? It's been steel since the early 1990s!

I didn't know that! Not that I should, of course! Really?

Yep, copper plated steel since 1992.

Wow, makes me feel sorry for the future generations of collectors! Imagine the questions on post-decimal.com in 50 years time! "How exactly do you store a piece of steel"? "Can I dip it?" "My tuppence has developed a series of nasty orange bubbles, what can I do?"

I already have that concern with my Huth double florin.

Yes, I was just reading about it in a different thread! A lot of money for a 100+ year-old lump of iron (did you ever post images?), selling for significantly more than its silver brethren!

Why did they strike some in iron, when others were struck in silver, etc. seems like a crude material for such an impressive pattern?

[Rob]

Yes, I was just reading about it in a different thread! A lot of money for a 100+ year-old lump of iron (did you ever post images?), selling for significantly more than its silver brethren!

Why did they strike some in iron, when others were struck in silver, etc. seems like a crude material for such an impressive pattern?

There are other metals as well. Private patterns means you can do what you want - as indeed can the RM.

I think I posted an image somewhere.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Rob

[Coinery]

Yes, I was just reading about it in a different thread! A lot of money for a 100+ year-old lump of iron (did you ever post images?), selling for significantly more than its silver brethren!

Why did they strike some in iron, when others were struck in silver, etc. seems like a crude material for such an impressive pattern?

There are other metals as well. Private patterns means you can do what you want - as indeed can the RM.

I think I posted an image somewhere.

What was the primary purpose of a private pattern? Was it a private submission to a Royal Mint commission for a currency coin?

[Rob]

Yes, I was just reading about it in a different thread! A lot of money for a 100+ year-old lump of iron (did you ever post images?), selling for significantly more than its silver brethren!

Why did they strike some in iron, when others were struck in silver, etc. seems like a crude material for such an impressive pattern?

There are other metals as well. Private patterns means you can do what you want - as indeed can the RM.

I think I posted an image somewhere.

What was the primary purpose of a private pattern? Was it a private submission to a Royal Mint commission for a currency coin?

Usually. You have to remember that contracts were given out worldwide for currency, so any coin would show the engraver's/manufacturer's competence. Some were popular despite being rejected by the RM such as Moore's model pennies and halfpennies to the extent that they had to publicly disclaim them.

[Coinery]

Yes, I was just reading about it in a different thread! A lot of money for a 100+ year-old lump of iron (did you ever post images?), selling for significantly more than its silver brethren!

Why did they strike some in iron, when others were struck in silver, etc. seems like a crude material for such an impressive pattern?

There are other metals as well. Private patterns means you can do what you want - as indeed can the RM.

I think I posted an image somewhere.

What was the primary purpose of a private pattern? Was it a private submission to a Royal Mint commission for a currency coin?

Usually. You have to remember that contracts were given out worldwide for currency, so any coin would show the engraver's/manufacturer's competence. Some were popular despite being rejected by the RM such as Moore's model pennies and halfpennies to the extent that they had to publicly disclaim them.

Another box ticked! Thanks, Rob!

[josie]

Yes, I was just reading about it in a different thread! A lot of money for a 100+ year-old lump of iron (did you ever post images?), selling for significantly more than its silver brethren!

Why did they strike some in iron, when others were struck in silver, etc. seems like a crude material for such an impressive pattern?

There are other metals as well. Private patterns means you can do what you want - as indeed can the RM.

I think I posted an image somewhere.

What was the primary purpose of a private pattern? Was it a private submission to a Royal Mint commission for a currency coin?

Usually. You have to remember that contracts were given out worldwide for currency, so any coin would show the engraver's/manufacturer's competence. Some were popular despite being rejected by the RM such as Moore's model pennies and halfpennies to the extent that they had to publicly disclaim them.

Another box ticked! Thanks, Rob!

Who owned the artistic image in the coin or note?the artist the engaver or the mint?

[Gary1000]

Yes, I was just reading about it in a different thread! A lot of money for a 100+ year-old lump of iron (did you ever post images?), selling for significantly more than its silver brethren!

Why did they strike some in iron, when others were struck in silver, etc. seems like a crude material for such an impressive pattern?

There are other metals as well. Private patterns means you can do what you want - as indeed can the RM.

I think I posted an image somewhere.

What was the primary purpose of a private pattern? Was it a private submission to a Royal Mint commission for a currency coin?

Usually. You have to remember that contracts were given out worldwide for currency, so any coin would show the engraver's/manufacturer's competence. Some were popular despite being rejected by the RM such as Moore's model pennies and halfpennies to the extent that they had to publicly disclaim them.

Another box ticked! Thanks, Rob!

Who owned the artistic image in the coin or note?the artist the engaver or the mint?

Whoever commissioned it I guess.

[Sylvester]

why havn't they recalled the copper stuff yet?

What planet have you been living on scott? It's been steel since the early 1990s!

I didn't know that! Not that I should, of course! Really?

Yep, copper plated steel since 1992.

Wow, makes me feel sorry for the future generations of collectors! Imagine the questions on post-decimal.com in 50 years time! "How exactly do you store a piece of steel"? "Can I dip it?" "My tuppence has developed a series of nasty orange bubbles, what can I do?"

I already have that concern with my Huth double florin.

Yes, I was just reading about it in a different thread! A lot of money for a 100+ year-old lump of iron (did you ever post images?), selling for significantly more than its silver brethren!

Why did they strike some in iron, when others were struck in silver, etc. seems like a crude material for such an impressive pattern?

Tin farthings and halfpennies from the Charles II, James II and William and Mary come to mind, much harder to find in decent condition without corrosion and the price for the tin coins is higher than the copper, on the whole.

[Sylvester]

why havn't they recalled the copper stuff yet?

What planet have you been living on scott? It's been steel since the early 1990s!

I didn't know that! Not that I should, of course! Really?

Yep, copper plated steel since 1992.

I think he meant, why haven't they started collecting the bronze coins back in, and I did once ask the Royal Mint why they'd minted a whole load of bronze 2p back in c.1999, they weren't forthcoming with an answer. But I still get lots of bronze in change, lots of Machin head coins turn up, I had a whole pile full of them until a few months ago... seems strange how they haven't tried actively hunting them down like the are with the 5p and 10p coins, maybe they are doing it now, since they're going after the cupronickel.

[Coinery]

A lot of money for a 100+ year-old lump of iron (did you ever post images?), selling for significantly more than its silver brethren!

Tin farthings and halfpennies from the Charles II, James II and William and Mary come to mind, much harder to find in decent condition without corrosion and the price for the tin coins is higher than the copper, on the whole.

Excellent point! Totally logical, really!

[copper123]

Maybe it will not be long till the undated 2008 20p coins outnumber the dated ones as the royal mint gets on with the job of melting down the old currency and issueing the new!

[Sylvester]

Maybe it will not be long till the undated 2008 20p coins outnumber the dated ones as the royal mint gets on with the job of melting down the old currency and issueing the new!

All jesting aside, my impression is (and I may be wrong), that the 20p and 50p coins will be left in circulation (at this point in time) since they're still being minted in cupronickel. It's only the pre-2011 5p and 10p coins that are going to be weeded out. Obviously the pre-2008 designs are going to be the easiest to spot and they'll vanish first. Although even so I expect it'll take ten years or more before they are seldom seen, I mean how many billions or 1990 5ps or 1992 10p coins are there. Many of which I bet are sat in change bags / piggy banks waiting to be returned to circulation or dumped in at the bank. Maybe they'll get HSBC or similar bank on side to engineer their change depositing machines to automatically separate the cupronickel 5p/10p coins?

Coinage of 2020, imagine... 1p & 2p coins only going back to 1992 (rarely any earlier) if they're still in circulation at all, who knows? The 5p & 10p coins only going back to 2011/2012 (rarely earlier), 20p & 50p coins, depends whether they switch composition between now and then. It looks like we'll never get another period where you can regularly pull coins 100 years + out of circulation. The failings of a fiat currency, me thinks.

[TomGoodheart]

Coinage of 2020, imagine... 1p & 2p coins only going back to 1992 (rarely any earlier) if they're still in circulation at all, who knows? The 5p & 10p coins only going back to 2011/2012 (rarely earlier), 20p & 50p coins, depends whether they switch composition between now and then. It looks like we'll never get another period where you can regularly pull coins 100 years + out of circulation. The failings of a fiat currency, me thinks.

Yes. I do wonder if one of the reasons coin collecting is big in the US is that they still can find circulating silver coinage from 100 years ago. Or at least cents from 50. We've lost that continuity forever and with it the nostalgia for things like shillings that, at least in my case, was one of the attractions of collecting that denomination in the first place.

OK, to kids today I guess 1971 is 100 years ago, or I should say 1991 as you won't find any of the original pre-decimal sized 5p or 10ps any more ... but despite the Mint's best efforts(?) I can't see many people getting excited about coins stretching back all of 22 years ..