1694 2 Guinea William & Mary Gold Coin

[Harry]

Hello,

My late grandfather left me an old coin that is a 1694 William & Mary - 2 Guinea gold piece. I have been doing a lot of research on this coin, and I found a few (in far better condition) that sold for a nice chunk of change.

This one that is just about mint sold for £25,000...

http://www.mhcoins.co.uk/coins/milled/william-and-mary-1688-94-16943-two-guineas/

And this one here sold for $27,600 (USD)

http://images.goldbergauctions.com/php/lot_auc.php?site=1&sale=46&lot=344〈=1

My piece is not in the same condition. I tried to have it graded here in the USA by NGC, but they could not grade it for me...they sent me a sticker back with the coin that reads "GUARANTEED AUTHENTIC ONLY - DETAILS GRADE DOES NOT DETERMINE VALUE".

My understanding is that this coin is extremely rare, two guineas were only minted for three years 1691, 1693 & 1694. No guineas were minted at local provincial mints. For all you experts out there, I would really like to hear what your opinions are on this coin judging from my posted pictures below. Thanks in advance everyone.

Harry

[azda]

Hello Henry and welcome. Firstly the chunk of change in which you refer to in the 1st two coins are for high grade coins, which unfortunately yours is'nt.

If you look at yours properly against the other two there you'll see a huge difference in grade, and grade is everything. I'm actually wondering if yours is genuine, the surfaces are porous? And the REV rim is falling away at 3 oclock. Have you had this tested?

[Harry]

Hello Henry and welcome. Firstly the chunk of change in which you refer to in the 1st two coins are for high grade coins, which unfortunately yours is'nt.

If you look at yours properly against the other two there you'll see a huge difference in grade, and grade is everything. I'm actually wondering if yours is genuine, the surfaces are porous? And the REV rim is falling away at 3 oclock. Have you had this tested?

I had 4 reputable coin collecting stores in my area ALL tell me it is authentic, but not in the best of condition. I know my coin does not come close to the ones I posted links to, but they were all that I could find that had sold. Grade aside, I would think that because the coin is so rare...it should hold some value. I have seen pics of others that are in far worst condition than mine...they looked almost square and you could not see any detail on the faces/busts, much less read the lettering around the coin. As well as any detail on the shield of arms.

I've come across some hard times...as much as I would like to keep it, I really only collect American coins. Judging by the pictures I posted....what do you think I could get for it? I know the grade is not that well....considering it's age, I have seen pics of others in far worst condition. Any idea how many of these coins were made? Again, thank you for your help. Looking forward to hearing back from you and any others that would care to chime in.

Harry

[Harry]

I plan on putting it up for auction as soon as some of you guys tell me what to expect to get for it in it's condition. Thanks for the help!

Harry

[Peckris]

Hello,

My late grandfather left me an old coin that is a 1694 William & Mary - 2 Guinea gold piece. I have been doing a lot of research on this coin, and I found a few (in far better condition) that sold for a nice chunk of change.

My piece is not in the same condition. I tried to have it graded here in the USA by NGC, but they could not grade it for me...they sent me a sticker back with the coin that reads "GUARANTEED AUTHENTIC ONLY - DETAILS GRADE DOES NOT DETERMINE VALUE".

My understanding is that this coin is extremely rare, two guineas were only minted for three years 1691, 1693 & 1694. No guineas were minted at local provincial mints. For all you experts out there, I would really like to hear what your opinions are on this coin judging from my posted pictures below. Thanks in advance everyone.

Harry

Now you've had it certified genuine, that's one weight off your mind. The condition is somewhere between Fine and Very Fine, I'd say nearer to Fine myself. As a VERY rough guide, allow 1/25 - 1/30 of the realised prices for Fine, and up to 1/10 maximum for VF. (Judging by Spink values).

Hello Henry and welcome. Firstly the chunk of change in which you refer to in the 1st two coins are for high grade coins, which unfortunately yours is'nt.

If you look at yours properly against the other two there you'll see a huge difference in grade, and grade is everything. I'm actually wondering if yours is genuine, the surfaces are porous? And the REV rim is falling away at 3 oclock. Have you had this tested?

No comment Dave, except to ask "Doesn't the Aye-Phone have a scroll bar?"

[Peter]

Should gold be porous?

Strange that NGC didn't want to grade it.

If it is authentic which NGC suggest it is it falls into the akward band of people wanting this will pay a lot more for a high grade.

Maybe £1200 to £1500.

[azda]

Hello,

My late grandfather left me an old coin that is a 1694 William & Mary - 2 Guinea gold piece. I have been doing a lot of research on this coin, and I found a few (in far better condition) that sold for a nice chunk of change.

My piece is not in the same condition. I tried to have it graded here in the USA by NGC, but they could not grade it for me...they sent me a sticker back with the coin that reads "GUARANTEED AUTHENTIC ONLY - DETAILS GRADE DOES NOT DETERMINE VALUE".

My understanding is that this coin is extremely rare, two guineas were only minted for three years 1691, 1693 & 1694. No guineas were minted at local provincial mints. For all you experts out there, I would really like to hear what your opinions are on this coin judging from my posted pictures below. Thanks in advance everyone.

Harry

Now you've had it certified genuine, that's one weight off your mind. The condition is somewhere between Fine and Very Fine, I'd say nearer to Fine myself. As a VERY rough guide, allow 1/25 - 1/30 of the realised prices for Fine, and up to 1/10 maximum for VF. (Judging by Spink values).

Hello Henry and welcome. Firstly the chunk of change in which you refer to in the 1st two coins are for high grade coins, which unfortunately yours is'nt.

If you look at yours properly against the other two there you'll see a huge difference in grade, and grade is everything. I'm actually wondering if yours is genuine, the surfaces are porous? And the REV rim is falling away at 3 oclock. Have you had this tested?

No comment Dave, except to ask "Doesn't the Aye-Phone have a scroll bar?"

I read what was written Peck, but as Peter has also said, my concern was it being porous. As we all know, NGC have made some glaring mistakes on English coins which have been recently highlighted on this very forum. So it's still a concern for me my old bean................Has anyone else heard of porous Gold?

[Harry]

Any way to find out out about how many of these were milled? I appreciate your responses and help gentlemen. Thank you!

Harry

[Peckris]

Hello,

My late grandfather left me an old coin that is a 1694 William & Mary - 2 Guinea gold piece. I have been doing a lot of research on this coin, and I found a few (in far better condition) that sold for a nice chunk of change.

My piece is not in the same condition. I tried to have it graded here in the USA by NGC, but they could not grade it for me...they sent me a sticker back with the coin that reads "GUARANTEED AUTHENTIC ONLY - DETAILS GRADE DOES NOT DETERMINE VALUE".

My understanding is that this coin is extremely rare, two guineas were only minted for three years 1691, 1693 & 1694. No guineas were minted at local provincial mints. For all you experts out there, I would really like to hear what your opinions are on this coin judging from my posted pictures below. Thanks in advance everyone.

Harry

Now you've had it certified genuine, that's one weight off your mind. The condition is somewhere between Fine and Very Fine, I'd say nearer to Fine myself. As a VERY rough guide, allow 1/25 - 1/30 of the realised prices for Fine, and up to 1/10 maximum for VF. (Judging by Spink values).

Hello Henry and welcome. Firstly the chunk of change in which you refer to in the 1st two coins are for high grade coins, which unfortunately yours is'nt.

If you look at yours properly against the other two there you'll see a huge difference in grade, and grade is everything. I'm actually wondering if yours is genuine, the surfaces are porous? And the REV rim is falling away at 3 oclock. Have you had this tested?

No comment Dave, except to ask "Doesn't the Aye-Phone have a scroll bar?"

I read what was written Peck, but as Peter has also said, my concern was it being porous. As we all know, NGC have made some glaring mistakes on English coins which have been recently highlighted on this very forum. So it's still a concern for me my old bean................Has anyone else heard of porous Gold?

It may or may not be genuine, but if you have a slip from NGC saying "genuine", and you want to sell it, then it is

[Harry]

So is there a way to find out how many were made?? I can't seem to find an answer to this question. Anyone? Thank you!

Harry

[Peter]

Mintage figures weren't issued in those days.Maybe a total weight of gold coined which covered all denominations of gold.I think Spinks guide price or auction records will define rareity.

I wouldn't put it on Ebay.Major auction houses will respect NGC (personally they are as much use as a chocolate teapot).It will find its level.

[TomGoodheart]

I wonder if the pitting isn't water damage? It has the look of a coin that's possibly been in the sea for a while in that the damage resembles that on wreck retrieved pieces of eight.

As for prices, well, I imagine this is more representative than tens of thousands of dollars:

mcsearch Heritage 1694/3 2 Guineas April 2011

Of course, the only way to find out is to put it to auction and see I'm afraid. Let us know how you get on though!

[Peckris]

I wonder if the pitting isn't water damage? It has the look of a coin that's possibly been in the sea for a while in that the damage resembles that on wreck retrieved pieces of eight.

As for prices, well, I imagine this is more representative than tens of thousands of dollars:

mcsearch Heritage 1694/3 2 Guineas April 2011

Of course, the only way to find out is to put it to auction and see I'm afraid. Let us know how you get on though!

I finally gave up waiting for that link to load, Tom.

[Generic Lad]

Should gold be porous?

Strange that NGC didn't want to grade it.

If it is authentic which NGC suggest it is it falls into the akward band of people wanting this will pay a lot more for a high grade.

Maybe £1200 to £1500.

US Grading services such as NGC/PCGS will ship back many coins that they won't grade due to different things. I've seen coins receive no grades due to:

Environmental damage (dug coins, verdigris, sometimes PVC slime)

Cleaning

Graffiti

Scratches

Toning of unknown origin

Tooled

etc.

Rather than do what most coin dealers would do which would be to grade the coin with a grade (such as fine, but X flaw) or use a net grade (I think ANACS does do net grading). PCGS and NGC will flat out either refuse to slab it and return it in a flip, or will slab it but refuse to give a numerical grade (and give a details grade)

If you submit enough coins to PCGS/NGC a good chunk of them will come back ungraded. The fact that this coin has come back without a numerical grade is not surprising (as it clearly has environmental damage) and it really shouldn't be an indicator that NGC thinks the coin is suspect. Your best bet is to sell it within the slab/flip that NGC has said its authentic because re-submitting it for evaluation at PCGS/NGC is going to give you another no-grade coin.

[TomGoodheart]

I finally gave up waiting for that link to load, Tom.

It all went slow. Now it's loading again .. strange:

[Harry]

Thank you all so much for the information. I will be putting it on eBay shortly. I'm not sure if I should ask for a fixed price, ask for "X" amount or best offer, or start the bid at "X" amount and see how much it will fetch. Reserve or no reserve. Going out of my mind as to how to approach this the right way. I have a perfect feedback on eBay from 13 years of selling and buying. If anyone has any suggestions on what would be the best approach to take, I'd be happy to hear it.

I also have one other coin from the UK, it's a Queen Victoria 1887 Gold Proof Five (£5) Pound piece. I had it looked at by a few of my local shops, and they said it looks to be uncirculated or in extra fine condition. On the fence if I should send that out to be graded...or just sell it as is on eBay as well. I'm afraid NGC may hold it again for 3 months before sending back to me without being able to grade it.

I will post links to the auctions here once I get them up and running.

Once again, thanks for all your help!

Harry

[Rob]

Thank you all so much for the information. I will be putting it on eBay shortly. I'm not sure if I should ask for a fixed price, ask for "X" amount or best offer, or start the bid at "X" amount and see how much it will fetch. Reserve or no reserve. Going out of my mind as to how to approach this the right way. I have a perfect feedback on eBay from 13 years of selling and buying. If anyone has any suggestions on what would be the best approach to take, I'd be happy to hear it.

I also have one other coin from the UK, it's a Queen Victoria 1887 Gold Proof Five (£5) Pound piece. I had it looked at by a few of my local shops, and they said it looks to be uncirculated or in extra fine condition. On the fence if I should send that out to be graded...or just sell it as is on eBay as well. I'm afraid NGC may hold it again for 3 months before sending back to me without being able to grade it.

I will post links to the auctions here once I get them up and running.

Once again, thanks for all your help!

Harry

If the local shops don't know the difference between UNC & EF I suggest you ignore what they say. If a proof, then this should be obvious, but if only EF would be impaired and not worth a premium to a currency piece. There are modern counterfeits of this issue.

[Peckris]

I finally gave up waiting for that link to load, Tom.

It all went slow. Now it's loading again .. strange:

Oh yes - super fast today! That example looks a bit porous too, though not as much.

Thank you all so much for the information. I will be putting it on eBay shortly. I'm not sure if I should ask for a fixed price, ask for "X" amount or best offer, or start the bid at "X" amount and see how much it will fetch. Reserve or no reserve. Going out of my mind as to how to approach this the right way. I have a perfect feedback on eBay from 13 years of selling and buying. If anyone has any suggestions on what would be the best approach to take, I'd be happy to hear it.

I also have one other coin from the UK, it's a Queen Victoria 1887 Gold Proof Five (£5) Pound piece. I had it looked at by a few of my local shops, and they said it looks to be uncirculated or in extra fine condition. On the fence if I should send that out to be graded...or just sell it as is on eBay as well. I'm afraid NGC may hold it again for 3 months before sending back to me without being able to grade it.

I will post links to the auctions here once I get them up and running.

Once again, thanks for all your help!

Harry

If the local shops don't know the difference between UNC & EF I suggest you ignore what they say. If a proof, then this should be obvious, but if only EF would be impaired and not worth a premium to a currency piece. There are modern counterfeits of this issue.

Courtesy of the Lebanon, 1970s, among others. They are expert fakes too, and extremely difficult to spot unless the gold was tested for purity.

[Harry]

I don't think it's fake...it's been in my great grandfather's hands, my grandfather's hands, my father's hands, and now mine. As much as I'd like to keep it, I have medical bills I need to pay and tiny mouths to feed....so I have to let a few pieces go.

Harry

[Peckris]

I don't think it's fake...it's been in my great grandfather's hands, my grandfather's hands, my father's hands, and now mine. As much as I'd like to keep it, I have medical bills I need to pay and tiny mouths to feed....so I have to let a few pieces go.

Sorry to hear that But if it's been in your family that long, it should be ok. Your best bet is to put it in an auction rather than accept (at most) 2/3 of its value from a dealer. Unless you need the money quick, of course.

[Coinery]

I don't think it's fake...it's been in my great grandfather's hands, my grandfather's hands, my father's hands, and now mine. As much as I'd like to keep it, I have medical bills I need to pay and tiny mouths to feed....so I have to let a few pieces go.

Sorry to hear that But if it's been in your family that long, it should be ok. Your best bet is to put it in an auction rather than accept (at most) 2/3 of its value from a dealer. Unless you need the money quick, of course.

You'll lose up to 20% in an auction, don't forget!

[DaveG38]

I don't think it's fake...it's been in my great grandfather's hands, my grandfather's hands, my father's hands, and now mine. As much as I'd like to keep it, I have medical bills I need to pay and tiny mouths to feed....so I have to let a few pieces go.

Sorry to hear that But if it's been in your family that long, it should be ok. Your best bet is to put it in an auction rather than accept (at most) 2/3 of its value from a dealer. Unless you need the money quick, of course.

You'll lose up to 20% in an auction, don't forget!

And don't forget tthe buyer's premium, which any buyer will factor into the price they have to pay. Overall, you could be effectively back to a dealer's price of 2/3rds. Except that you never know what will happen in an auction where two bidders will go at it in a war of attrition, or maybe not. It all depends.

Edited January 29, 2013 by DaveG38

[Harry]

Went to my coin shop today and gave him the Queen Victoria 1887 Gold Five (£5) Pound piece to have him send it out for grading. He said he would give me $5k for it, but I declined and told him to have it sent out so that it can be graded. I've seen the same identical coin sell for almost double what he offered me.

As for the Guinea, I'm gathering as much information as I can about the piece and will probably list it on eBay later on this week. I took lots of high resolution pictures, I think I'm going to do a reserve auction instead of a fixed or buy it now/best offer type deal. Hopefully I can get a few guys involved in a brutal bidding war. lol

Thank you gentlemen.

Harry

[argentumandcoins]

Went to my coin shop today and gave him the Queen Victoria 1887 Gold Five (£5) Pound piece to have him send it out for grading. He said he would give me $5k for it, but I declined and told him to have it sent out so that it can be graded. I've seen the same identical coin sell for almost double what he offered me.

As for the Guinea, I'm gathering as much information as I can about the piece and will probably list it on eBay later on this week. I took lots of high resolution pictures, I think I'm going to do a reserve auction instead of a fixed or buy it now/best offer type deal. Hopefully I can get a few guys involved in a brutal bidding war. lol

Thank you gentlemen.

Harry

Well Harry, at $5000 you should of chewed his hand off. That was a very good offer for an 1887 £5.

[Colin88]

Harry,

$5000 is an outstanding offer for a vanilla 1887 £5 in EF or UNC (there is a big difference between EF and UNC and any proffesional dealer should be able to differeniate for you)...if you want to sell then take that offer quickly before they change their minds !

Personally, as for the 1694 2 Guineas, I wouldnt touch it based on those pictures...the soapy pourosity look of it is slighly worrying...but the good news is that NGC consider it to be genuine.....I would leverage that view and sell it.....should make around £1200 - £1500 (very approx $1800 - $2300).