1905 Halfcrown In hand pix

[azda]

I'm a late English hammered man myself but sometimes I am a little curious about the interest in some milled coins especially ones with a known rarity like this one.

I can fully understand a desire to gain a rare coin in your chosen collecting field as I have been through this on numerous occasions with what I like, but what I find interesting with a milled coin like this is the seemingly high level of desire to own one, going by Spink's book guide price would suggest a coin of great rarity, but is it? Rayner suggested R2, what R2 is in known numbers I don't know but when comparing with other know rarities the price does seem a lot? All I can imagine is that there must be many more poeple interested in the milled series which in some way involves a coin like this.

So does anyone know how many of these coins exist or maybe more important how many collectors interested in owning one? Just interested in your thoughts!

State of preservation combined with length of the reign boosts prices. Why are the 1854 victoria silver coins rarer considering she was on the throne for 60 odd years? You could ask yourself the same question regarding Edward VIII coins, why are all 5 figures and above consodering he was on the throne 8 months.

[Peckris]

I'm a late English hammered man myself but sometimes I am a little curious about the interest in some milled coins especially ones with a known rarity like this one.

I can fully understand a desire to gain a rare coin in your chosen collecting field as I have been through this on numerous occasions with what I like, but what I find interesting with a milled coin like this is the seemingly high level of desire to own one, going by Spink's book guide price would suggest a coin of great rarity, but is it? Rayner suggested R2, what R2 is in known numbers I don't know but when comparing with other know rarities the price does seem a lot? All I can imagine is that there must be many more poeple interested in the milled series which in some way involves a coin like this.

So does anyone know how many of these coins exist or maybe more important how many collectors interested in owning one? Just interested in your thoughts!

It's part genuine scarcity, part myth. The 1905 has always had a reputation within the lesser but still strong reputation of Ed VII generally. It's been a target for forgers, always a good sign of 'popularity'. Some experts think it's not so rare as this suggests though - some say the 1903 is at least as rare especially in higher grades. But overall it's the myth that drives so many to try and get one.

State of preservation combined with length of the reign boosts prices. Why are the 1854 victoria silver coins rarer considering she was on the throne for 60 odd years? You could ask yourself the same question regarding Edward VIII coins, why are all 5 figures and above consodering he was on the throne 8 months.

Not sure I buy this thesis Dave? It is true that Ed VII, like William IV, is a popular collectable reign, full of rarities, and both reigns were short. But Geo VI is relatively short too, and his prices are low. While George II had a long reign and his prices are high. It's surely more to do with supply and demand of individual dates and types? As for Ed VIII - there's one single reason for his high prices : on the throne less than a year and his coins never issued except as ultra-rare patterns, proofs, and a few trial pieces!

[Hussulo]

Probably wise to check out PCGS's stance on cleaned items ?

PCGS will body bag it, ie put it in a clear flip and not a slab and give you a label stating it had been cleaned.

NGC might put it in a slab, state what it is and don't mention it being cleaned.

ANACS will slab it and give it a grade as well as mentioning it has been cleaned.

If Chris authenticates it for you, I don't see the reason for slabbing it unless you want to sell it on ebay. If you are going to sell it, you are better to sell it raw at one of the London auction houses.

[Hussulo]

I just noticed Benny's reply about NGC detailed grades. I would go with them for slabbing if you really want it slabbed, but again:

If Chris authenticates it for you, I don't see the reason for slabbing it unless you want to sell it on ebay. If you are going to sell it, you are better to sell it raw at one of the London auction houses.

[azda]

Already have a buyer Huss, just waiting on the word from Chris

[Hussulo]

Already have a buyer Huss, just waiting on the word from Chris

Nice one

[Gary D]

Already have a buyer Huss, just waiting on the word from Chris

Being the proud owner of a fake of which I can't find a difference I would be very interesting to know what attributes Chris uses to authenticate it

[Peter]

Already have a buyer Huss, just waiting on the word from Chris

Being the proud owner of a fake of which I can't find a difference I would be very interesting to know what attributes Chris uses to authenticate it

If it is a fake it is bloody fantastic.

[azda]

Already have a buyer Huss, just waiting on the word from Chris

Being the proud owner of a fake of which I can't find a difference I would be very interesting to know what attributes Chris uses to authenticate it

You'd have to ask Chris that Gary, i've no idea. What is your weight/dia etc? How did you know did you know yours was fake?

Maybe upload a picture so it can be used as information for others.

[Gary D]

Already have a buyer Huss, just waiting on the word from Chris

Being the proud owner of a fake of which I can't find a difference I would be very interesting to know what attributes Chris uses to authenticate it

You'd have to ask Chris that Gary, i've no idea. What is your weight/dia etc? How did you know did you know yours was fake?

Maybe upload a picture so it can be used as information for others.

Here's the reverse. I bought this from auction as a fake and as this particular auction house has sold a few over the years I assume they know when they see the real McCoy or not.

Edited March 20, 2011 by Gary D

[Gary D]

And the observe. I've always have problems with reducing the size of photos and on a recomendation of a work colleague I tried Microsoft power toys image resizer. I guess most of you already know of it but to me it was an epiphany. Once loaed you just right click on the picture file and choose resize. As easy as that and alway there.

[azda]

Your colon after GRA looks as though it's nearly touching the A, whereas mine is quite clearly spaced, might be nothing, and also the T in SOIT looks slightly smaller than mine, apart from that

You never mentioned the weight or dia of yours, also does it ring? The one i have rings like a church bell on a Sunday

Edited March 20, 2011 by azda

[Gary D]

Your colon after GRA looks as though it's nearly touching the A, whereas mine is quite clearly spaced, might be nothing, and also the T in SOIT looks slightly smaller than mine, apart from that

You never mentioned the weight or dia of yours, also does it ring? The one i have rings like a church bell on a Sunday

Sorry forgot to add the details, I was too caught up in adding the photos. Diameter and weight are spot on, finesse is down at 90% silver.

[azda]

Your colon after GRA looks as though it's nearly touching the A, whereas mine is quite clearly spaced, might be nothing, and also the T in SOIT looks slightly smaller than mine, apart from that

You never mentioned the weight or dia of yours, also does it ring? The one i have rings like a church bell on a Sunday

Sorry forgot to add the details, I was too caught up in adding the photos. Diameter and weight are spot on, finesse is down at 90% silver.

Does it ring?

[RLC35]

And the observe. I've always have problems with reducing the size of photos and on a recomendation of a work colleague I tried Microsoft power toys image resizer. I guess most of you already know of it but to me it was an epiphany. Once loaed you just right click on the picture file and choose resize. As easy as that and alway there.

Gary,

If that is a fake...then it is really a good fake. It looks like the real thing! It would be interesting to send it in for slabbing, and see what happens.

[Gary D]

And the observe. I've always have problems with reducing the size of photos and on a recomendation of a work colleague I tried Microsoft power toys image resizer. I guess most of you already know of it but to me it was an epiphany. Once loaed you just right click on the picture file and choose resize. As easy as that and alway there.

Gary,

If that is a fake...then it is really a good fake. It looks like the real thing! It would be interesting to send it in for slabbing, and see what happens.

I bought it from London Coins as a fake so I'm pretty confident that it is a fake........or maybe mmmm

Azda, as to ring I think only being 0.025% low in silver content the ring would be meaningless. You need to go to nearer to 50% to be confident.

[VickySilver]

Gary that one looks almost as though it was a die done from scratch and not the usual transfer with touchups. It reminds me of the Daniel Carr 1964D Peace Dollar of so much notereity the last few months in the USA (see on www.moonlightminting.com I beleive is the addy). The lettering just looks different as do things such as the rev. shield details, etc.

Azda's looks from the pictures to be genuine with the notations already made and think it realistic unslabbed to bring GVF money but IMO if slabbed at, say, PCGS EF 40 perhaps a bit more...

[Gary D]

Gary that one looks almost as though it was a die done from scratch and not the usual transfer with touchups. It reminds me of the Daniel Carr 1964D Peace Dollar of so much notereity the last few months in the USA (see on www.moonlightminting.com I beleive is the addy). The lettering just looks different as do things such as the rev. shield details, etc.

Azda's looks from the pictures to be genuine with the notations already made and think it realistic unslabbed to bring GVF money but IMO if slabbed at, say, PCGS EF 40 perhaps a bit more...

I don't know the history of these coins, I believe they came out of Turkey sometime in the seventies.

Here's a side by side.

[Gary D]

[Hussulo]

Pretty scary

Having only looked at the reverse images, the only slight possible differences I can see:

1- The dots in the Colon are smaller on the left coin

2- The dot at and one to the left of L in Half are slightly oblonf on the left coin.

3- The dot just touches the garter on the left coin where it appears to be slightly over the garter on the right coin.

These differences might be down to lighting etc and you cannot say for certain looking at images.

[azda]

The signature and the colon after GRA are different, your signature seems to be nearly on the neck whereas mine is lower

[Gary D]

The signature and the colon after GRA are different, your signature seems to be nearly on the neck whereas mine is lower

I think the difference between the A of GRA and the colon dot is that your coin has lost the tip of the serif making the gap appear wider. What we need is someone in the know to come along and point out the differences. I do hope your coin turns out to be genuine all the same.

[declanwmagee]

See how the broken R that Dave's shows has been repaired in the fake!

[Peckris]

Already have a buyer Huss, just waiting on the word from Chris

Being the proud owner of a fake of which I can't find a difference I would be very interesting to know what attributes Chris uses to authenticate it

You'd have to ask Chris that Gary, i've no idea. What is your weight/dia etc? How did you know did you know yours was fake?

Maybe upload a picture so it can be used as information for others.

Here's the reverse. I bought this from auction as a fake and as this particular auction house has sold a few over the years I assume they know when they see the real McCoy or not.

Having looked in detail at both sides, and at your side-by-sides, I can say that the fake - as a starter, before getting down to specifics - just doesn't "feel" right, mainly with respect to wear patterns and definition.

• the legend on the garter should be the FIRST place to wear, yet there is none whatever

• the rim doesn't look right, I can't say any more than that

• the legend and shield beading look absolutely unworn and yet the crown and fleur de lys look severely flattened

• the Scottish lion looks blurred, more than merely a worn die would

• on the obverse, the wear pattern to the beard compared to the totally unworn legend, just isn't right (those coins don't wear that way)

• essentially, the coin is a patchwork of absolutely unworn features, compared with other features which are flattening more than a little

I suppose it's easy with hindsight - would I be able to tell if you hadn't told us it was a fake? I'm not sure. I can tell you this - on close inspection and comparison it doesn't look or feel right. But at a glance it would certainly pass muster.

[Accumulator]

Having looked in detail at both sides, and at your side-by-sides, I can say that the fake - as a starter, before getting down to specifics - just doesn't "feel" right, mainly with respect to wear patterns and definition.

• the legend on the garter should be the FIRST place to wear, yet there is none whatever

• the rim doesn't look right, I can't say any more than that

• the legend and shield beading look absolutely unworn and yet the crown and fleur de lys look severely flattened

• the Scottish lion looks blurred, more than merely a worn die would

• on the obverse, the wear pattern to the beard compared to the totally unworn legend, just isn't right (those coins don't wear that way)

• essentially, the coin is a patchwork of absolutely unworn features, compared with other features which are flattening more than a little

I suppose it's easy with hindsight - would I be able to tell if you hadn't told us it was a fake? I'm not sure. I can tell you this - on close inspection and comparison it doesn't look or feel right. But at a glance it would certainly pass muster.

I completely agree Peckris. The 'something not right' feeling for me, anyway, is the almost complete lack of marking or texture in the fields, compared to the obvious wear in the design. Presumably, in creating a die from an original coin the design wear would be replicated in a lack of die detail whereas tiny bag or handling marks in the fields would be flattened out. Nevertheless, it's much easier to spot these things with hindsight!