Test Token?

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

Hello All,

My turn to ask for help on two items....

First is a item slightly larger that a bronze penny, weighs 11.6 grams...

Image attached

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

Other side

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

Any ideas??? Anybody????

[Hussulo]

I've never seen one before.

I've been trying to look it up but can't find it.

Sorry I can't help.

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

I've never seen one before.

I've been trying to look it up but can't find it.

Sorry I can't help.

Thanks Huss....

[Colin G.]

I've never seen one before.

I've been trying to look it up but can't find it.

Sorry I can't help.

SNAP

[Gary]

I've never seen one before.

I've been trying to look it up but can't find it.

Sorry I can't help.

Same here, sorry

[Fubar]

I'm sure I've seen something like this before but my grey matter refuses to give up it's secrets.

The crown looks to be 20th Century.

Could it be last century's equivalent of the Ivory Coach Pass?

Kris

[DaveG38]

This a is a long shot and probably completely wrong, but it might spark some dabate. Some of you may be aware that as a student I worked for J Lyons and Co Ltd in many of their teashops, and I collect anything numismatic with a Lyons theme. As part of this I have a couple of penny sized tokens, made of brass, with large letters engraved on them - a P on one and a Q on the other. Subsequently, I have found that these were almost certainly used for the staff/management to gain access to the public toilets. The size is just right for 'spending a penny' as the brass just fitted the slots in those days when loos weren't free. Subsequently, the tokens were recovered when the door locks were opened and the money retrieved.

So, I wonder if this token could be something similar, except that it would apply to the Royal Mint. The 'L' might refer to ladies, although I can't then explain the small 'w'. This theory would probably only be feasible if the token is about the size of a penny or maybe halfpenny, depending on its age. Any views?

[Rob]

This a is a long shot and probably completely wrong, but it might spark some dabate. Some of you may be aware that as a student I worked for J Lyons and Co Ltd in many of their teashops, and I collect anything numismatic with a Lyons theme. As part of this I have a couple of penny sized tokens, made of brass, with large letters engraved on them - a P on one and a Q on the other. Subsequently, I have found that these were almost certainly used for the staff/management to gain access to the public toilets. The size is just right for 'spending a penny' as the brass just fitted the slots in those days when loos weren't free. Subsequently, the tokens were recovered when the door locks were opened and the money retrieved.

So, I wonder if this token could be something similar, except that it would apply to the Royal Mint. The 'L' might refer to ladies, although I can't then explain the small 'w'. This theory would probably only be feasible if the token is about the size of a penny or maybe halfpenny, depending on its age. Any views?

If you can find one with the W replaced by a C, P or S, then your answer lies near your feet.

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

For what it is worth, I emailed the Royal mint with images... Maybe I'll get my answer from them.....

[josie]

This a is a long shot and probably completely wrong, but it might spark some dabate. Some of you may be aware that as a student I worked for J Lyons and Co Ltd in many of their teashops, and I collect anything numismatic with a Lyons theme. As part of this I have a couple of penny sized tokens, made of brass, with large letters engraved on them - a P on one and a Q on the other. Subsequently, I have found that these were almost certainly used for the staff/management to gain access to the public toilets. The size is just right for 'spending a penny' as the brass just fitted the slots in those days when loos weren't free. Subsequently, the tokens were recovered when the door locks were opened and the money retrieved.

So, I wonder if this token could be something similar, except that it would apply to the Royal Mint. The 'L' might refer to ladies, although I can't then explain the small 'w'. This theory would probably only be feasible if the token is about the size of a penny or maybe halfpenny, depending on its age. Any views?

If you can find one with the W replaced by a C, P or S, then your answer lies near your feet.

Just inform us BCC what is the reply of tne mint.

W weight C, coin cents P penny pence S shilling,star,sol,sun?

L ladies lad men Libra unit of weight.

Just a comment.

Edited January 28, 2011 by josie

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

This a is a long shot and probably completely wrong, but it might spark some dabate. Some of you may be aware that as a student I worked for J Lyons and Co Ltd in many of their teashops, and I collect anything numismatic with a Lyons theme. As part of this I have a couple of penny sized tokens, made of brass, with large letters engraved on them - a P on one and a Q on the other. Subsequently, I have found that these were almost certainly used for the staff/management to gain access to the public toilets. The size is just right for 'spending a penny' as the brass just fitted the slots in those days when loos weren't free. Subsequently, the tokens were recovered when the door locks were opened and the money retrieved.

So, I wonder if this token could be something similar, except that it would apply to the Royal Mint. The 'L' might refer to ladies, although I can't then explain the small 'w'. This theory would probably only be feasible if the token is about the size of a penny or maybe halfpenny, depending on its age. Any views?

If you can find one with the W replaced by a C, P or S, then your answer lies near your feet.

Just inform us BCC what is the reply of tne mint.

W weight C, coin cents P penny pence S shilling,star,sol,sun?

L ladies lad men Libra unit of weight.

Just a comment.

Just got am email back from the mont... Said that they would do some research and try to get back to me within a weeks time....

Will keep you all posted....

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

I received a response from the Royal Mint today, as follows:

Thank you for your enquiry of 26 January.

Your Royal Mint token is an obsolete pass-out check used by the industrial staff at the old mint at Tower Hill in London between 1925 and 1945. The system is explained by the attached Office Notice of 4 July 1925 and as you will see a distinguishing letter was used for each of the rooms or sections of the factory. In the case of your specimen the distinguishing letter is the ‘L’ which relates to what was known as the Inland Revenue Department where postage embossing dies, dating plugs and plates for stamps were made. But we can offer no explanation for the incuse letter ‘W’.

We do have one of these pass-out checks in the Royal Mint collection. It bears the distinguishing letter ‘A’ to denote the Melting House but there is no incuse letter. If you ever decide to dispose of your specimen, you might like to think of us as we would be interested in obtaining additional examples.

With respect to the other piece, we are inclined to think from the photographs that this is not a brockage and, indeed, does not emanate from the Royal Mint.

Yours sincerely

Joseph Payne

Assistant Curator

The Royal Mint

Page 1 of Office Notice

Page 2 of Office Notice

[Colin G.]

Nice of them to come back, and another bit of information now stored by the rest of us

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

Nice of them to come back, and another bit of information now stored by the rest of us

I have found them to be extremely helpful when they have the information......

[Rob]

Nice of them to come back, and another bit of information now stored by the rest of us

I have found them to be extremely helpful when they have the information......

Lucky you. I've got 3 outstanding requests from the past 18 months still unanswered.

On the plus side, they did at least acknowledge the query even if I haven't had an answer, unlike a few other museums who didn't even bother to do that.

Edited February 2, 2011 by Rob

[Hussulo]

Thats great news and at least we have found out what it was used for.

[Peckris]

Thats great news and at least we have found out what it was used for.

I thought the Ladies Loo theory was more interesting

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

Thats great news and at least we have found out what it was used for.

I thought the Ladies Loo theory was more interesting

It was... But now we also have an insight as to security measures that were taken at the time....

[RobJ]

I received a response from the Royal Mint today, as follows:

Thank you for your enquiry of 26 January.

Your Royal Mint token is an obsolete pass-out check used by the industrial staff at the old mint at Tower Hill in London between 1925 and 1945. The system is explained by the attached Office Notice of 4 July 1925 and as you will see a distinguishing letter was used for each of the rooms or sections of the factory. In the case of your specimen the distinguishing letter is the ‘L’ which relates to what was known as the Inland Revenue Department where postage embossing dies, dating plugs and plates for stamps were made. But we can offer no explanation for the incuse letter ‘W’.

We do have one of these pass-out checks in the Royal Mint collection. It bears the distinguishing letter ‘A’ to denote the Melting House but there is no incuse letter. If you ever decide to dispose of your specimen, you might like to think of us as we would be interested in obtaining additional examples.

With respect to the other piece, we are inclined to think from the photographs that this is not a brockage and, indeed, does not emanate from the Royal Mint.

Yours sincerely

Joseph Payne

Assistant Curator

The Royal Mint

Page 1 of Office Notice

Page 2 of Office Notice

What a fascinating and most interesting piece of history.

Thanks for sharing that with us.

Edited February 2, 2011 by RobJ

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

I received a response from the Royal Mint today, as follows:

Thank you for your enquiry of 26 January.

Your Royal Mint token is an obsolete pass-out check used by the industrial staff at the old mint at Tower Hill in London between 1925 and 1945. The system is explained by the attached Office Notice of 4 July 1925 and as you will see a distinguishing letter was used for each of the rooms or sections of the factory. In the case of your specimen the distinguishing letter is the ‘L’ which relates to what was known as the Inland Revenue Department where postage embossing dies, dating plugs and plates for stamps were made. But we can offer no explanation for the incuse letter ‘W’.

We do have one of these pass-out checks in the Royal Mint collection. It bears the distinguishing letter ‘A’ to denote the Melting House but there is no incuse letter. If you ever decide to dispose of your specimen, you might like to think of us as we would be interested in obtaining additional examples.

With respect to the other piece, we are inclined to think from the photographs that this is not a brockage and, indeed, does not emanate from the Royal Mint.

Yours sincerely

Joseph Payne

Assistant Curator

The Royal Mint

Page 1 of Office Notice

Page 2 of Office Notice

What a fascinating and most interesting piece of history.

Thanks for sharing that with us.

You're quite welcome....

Often the hunt for information regarding an unusual find, is the real fun of collecting.....

[Peter]

Security had to be good...imagine a mint worker sneeking out a £5 bag of BU 1926 ME 1d's.

At £2,000 a pop they would be worth £2.4m at todays prices....I would retire and feed them gradually into the market (when funds were required.)

A 10% discount for forum members would apply

[argentumandcoins]

If the Mint museum only have one example left it would appear that somebody managed to sneak out a considerable number of passes at the time they were replaced/made obsolete!

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

If the Mint museum only have one example left it would appear that somebody managed to sneak out a considerable number of passes at the time they were replaced/made obsolete!

Certainly at least one.....