1891 Crown Toning

[Coys55 36]

Any comments on the heavy toning on this 1891 crown? I was wondering how would it get that dark even colour on both sides? Or has it been treated somehow?

Edited August 23 by Coys55

[copper123 1,434]

Could have been  in the ground or acid maybe , looks really nice otherwise.......

[1887jubilee 37]

I have seen this on coins in my collection that have been in cases with particular foam in the lining and also on a silver tea pot that was exposed to sulfurous coal fires.

[Sword 1,380]

I personally dislike even dark toning. It makes the design looks so flat. Nice toning around the devices of a coin highlights the design.

[Coys55 36]

22 minutes ago, 1887jubilee said:

I have seen this on coins in my collection that have been in cases with particular foam in the lining and also on a silver tea pot that was exposed to sulfurous coal fires.

It certainly looks like it been exposed to something. Would it be one for dipping?

[Peckris 2 2,102]

At least the toning is even - could be a lot worse.

[Coys55 36]

2 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

At least the toning is even - could be a lot worse.

It’s certainly the darkest and most even I’ve seen. 

[Sword 1,380]

17 hours ago, Coys55 said:

It certainly looks like it been exposed to something. Would it be one for dipping?

I would leave it myself. The coin has a bit of wear and you can't be certain if there is lustre underneath. I wouldn't think it's worth the risk of dipping.

[Peckris 2 2,102]

10 hours ago, Sword said:

I would leave it myself. The coin has a bit of wear and you can't be certain if there is lustre underneath. I wouldn't think it's worth the risk of dipping.

If you did dip, I have a golden rule:

1. use Goddards, and a clean container

2. dip FOR ONLY 10 SECONDS

3. remove, rinse thoroughly, and dab dry with a clean towel

If that doesn't cure the problem, or at least only partly, don't be tempted to dip again.

[Coys55 36]

13 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

If you did dip, I have a golden rule:

1. use Goddards, and a clean container

2. dip FOR ONLY 10 SECONDS

3. remove, rinse thoroughly, and dab dry with a clean towel

If that doesn't cure the problem, or at least only partly, don't be tempted to dip again.

What about the aluminium and baking soda method? Is that better or worse than Goddards? Or are they equally good/bad?

[Peckris 2 2,102]

On 8/25/2024 at 11:41 AM, Coys55 said:

What about the aluminium and baking soda method? Is that better or worse than Goddards? Or are they equally good/bad?

That's not 'dipping' in the commercial sense - I've not tried it myself but if it works then go for it.

[oldcopper 283]

Could be a copper fake - worth checking its weight.

[Coys55 36]

7 hours ago, oldcopper said:

Could be a copper fake - worth checking its weight.

It does look copperish TBH, but at 28.28g compared to my 1890 and 1892 at 28.29g I think it's fine.

[Sword 1,380]

The official weight from the Royal mint is 28.28g and so spot on.

[ozjohn 607]

On 8/25/2024 at 8:41 PM, Coys55 said:

What about the aluminium and baking soda method? Is that better or worse than Goddards? Or are they equally good/bad?

The Al foil and Sodium carbonate/Bicarbonate convert the toning, mainly silver sulfide,  back to metallic silver .Whereas Goddards' probably etches the surface to remove the silver sulfide. Personally  given the chemistry I prefer the Sodium carbonate/ Al foil method as despite the people who like toned coins the truth is toning is corrosion is damage to the surface of the coin whereas the the sodium carbonate / Al foil is returning the silver to the coin's surface.

[Peckris 2 2,102]

4 hours ago, ozjohn said:

The Al foil and Sodium carbonate/Bicarbonate convert the toning, mainly silver sulfide,  back to metallic silver .Whereas Goddards' probably etches the surface to remove the silver sulfide. Personally  given the chemistry I prefer the Sodium carbonate/ Al foil method as despite the people who like toned coins the truth is toning is corrosion is damage to the surface of the coin whereas the the sodium carbonate / Al foil is returning the silver to the coin's surface.

From Goddards own site:

How Silver Dip Works:

1. Chemical Reaction:

As tarnished silver jewellery is immersed in a silver dip solution, a chemical reaction occurs. Thiourea or potassium thiocyanate in the solution reacts with the silver sulphide, which is broken down into one component, silver, and one component, sulphur.

2. Dissolving tarnish:

The silver sulphide dissolves into the solution as the chemical reaction proceeds, leaving behind a transparent, untarnished silver sheet. During this process, the tarnishing process is reversed, revealing the shiny silver surface underneath.

No mention of 'etching'?

[Sword 1,380]

The fact that there are many methods available would imply that there is no clear winner. In many cases, the winning method is to leave the coin alone ...

I don't think dipping can generally restore the cartwheel lustre of a mint coin but can be helpful if the toning is ugly.

[ozjohn 607]

Very good Goddards seems to work in a similar way with a different process to the Al foil process. I think Swords observation is true leave coin alone if possible. I do find it difficult to to believe that a  100 year old  high grade coin can remain untarnished when left undisturbed in a draw or similar for most of that time as the other  silver items I have start to tarnish after 3 months of so unless wrapped in sulfur free tissue paper.

[Peckris 2 2,102]

On 8/30/2024 at 8:35 PM, ozjohn said:

I do find it difficult to to believe that a  100 year old  high grade coin can remain untarnished when left undisturbed in a draw or similar for most of that time as the other  silver items I have start to tarnish after 3 months of so unless wrapped in sulfur free tissue paper.

It's a good point. I have double florins and two JH crowns where the fields look highly reflective, but not polished, and the designs and legends aren’t (not cameo but definitely not very reflective like the fields). It does make you wonder how they have maintained that state.

[Bruce 180]

1 hour ago, Peckris 2 said:

It's a good point. I have double florins and two JH crowns where the fields look highly reflective, but not polished, and the designs and legends aren’t (not cameo but definitely not very reflective like the fields). It does make you wonder how they have maintained that state.

Same here, Florin and Shilling are also with reflective field.

[Peckris 2 2,102]

15 hours ago, Bruce said:

Same here, Florin and Shilling are also with reflective field.

I think it's often a feature in Victorian silver?

[Bruce 180]

 

1 hour ago, Peckris 2 said:

I think it's often a feature in Victorian silver?

The Jubilee head is more obvious.  if compare Gothic Florin with Jubilee ones, the Gothic is usually less reflective or bright in obverse field.

[Sword 1,380]

On 8/31/2024 at 9:28 PM, Peckris 2 said:

It's a good point. I have double florins and two JH crowns where the fields look highly reflective, but not polished, and the designs and legends aren’t (not cameo but definitely not very reflective like the fields). It does make you wonder how they have maintained that state.

I think if the layer of tarnish is "thin", then it will be transparent to the eye and let light reflect back on the smooth surface below. Once the tarnish layer gets too think, then it will no longer allows light to reflect from the surface below and the coin no longer have reflective fields. 

[Sword 1,380]

On 9/1/2024 at 3:12 PM, Bruce said:

 

The Jubilee head is more obvious.  if compare Gothic Florin with Jubilee ones, the Gothic is usually less reflective or bright in obverse field.

I have long admired the very high quality of late Victorian coinage. I agree that the Jubilee Head and also the Old Head coins have such wonderfully reflective fields. Even standard currency sometimes have frosting on designs. The highly reflective surfaces also promote beautiful toning too. 

[Bruce 180]

28 minutes ago, Sword said:

I have long admired the very high quality of late Victorian coinage. I agree that the Jubilee Head and also the Old Head coins have such wonderfully reflective fields. Even standard currency sometimes have frosting on designs. The highly reflective surfaces also promote beautiful toning too. 

I love Gothic Florin, however those high quality ones are very pricey.  In addition, I love to find varieties of Victorian Florin, especially those Jubilee and Old Head.