1897 Penny - NGC calls these two High Tide, seems incorrect

[Michael-Roo]

Agreed; not high tide.

[terrysoldpennies]

Its one of the most mis attributed types you see , nearly all the so could high tide examples on E.bay are incorrect .

The best way to tell is by the stem of the P in Penny which on the High Tide points to the Gap [space] between the teeth, on all the others it points to the Tooth.

[SilverAge3]

I contacted Great Collections, who has it up for auction, trying to contact PCGS through their web contact form, but the contact options don't exactly pertain to this, so who knows how this will go.

[SilverAge3]

Here is what I plan to send to PCGS

I believe this coin to be improperly attributed as High Tide/ High Sea Level
https://www.pcgs.com/cert/56163554
 
Distinctive markers to determine variety correctly:

Center of the upright part of P in Penny should point to gap between denticles, not to a tooth.

Shield at bottom should basically be touching denticles, whereas there is a gap here in this coin.

Tide on right side of coin should reach next fold up in Britannia's dress, closer to where legs cross.

For comparison, this one is correctly identified:
https://www.pcgs.com/cert/82915544

 

I  can also provide more pictorial proof upon request.

 

Edited March 27 by SilverAge3

[SilverAge3]

Also sent more pics

Edited March 27 by SilverAge3

[SilverAge3]

I noticed that Britannia's foot is also closer to the denticles on the High Tide.

Obviously the tides are different, even if i did not scale the pictures exactly the same.

Using the two PCGS  examples, both correctly, and (IMO) incorrectly attributed.

Edited March 27 by SilverAge3

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

Good luck,

Some members might remember the fiasco of PCGS misattributing an uncirculated 1860 Mule farthing. 

PCGS would not admit that the slightly separated teeth, a known issue and mentioned in catalogs and guidebooks, were not round beads. They covered themselves by identifying it as a new variety, midway between teeth and beads.

It will be interesting to see what their response is. Probably just call it a clerical labeling error.

[SilverAge3]

I'm honestly expecting to be ignored or given nonsense form responses. I am hoping GC is responsive, and applies pressure to PCGS to be accountable. Other examples (from NGC) earlier in this thread were on eBay, not much leverage there, but this is a bit different.

[SilverAge3]

7 minutes ago, Bronze & Copper Collector said:

| They covered themselves by identifying it as a new variety, midway between teeth and beads.

It will be interesting to see what their response is. Probably just call it a clerical labeling error.

New variety. Hah!

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

Link to the thread about the farthing mule

[SilverAge3]

2 hours ago, Bronze & Copper Collector said:

Link to the thread about the farthing mule

Thanks, Gary

 

Edit: wow, what a ride. It ended sort of unresolved regarding your pursuit of PCGS putting up more than obfuscating language counter to known history of beaded borders. But no response is also a response.

Edited March 27 by SilverAge3

[SilverAge3]

Great Collections has responded to me, and accolades to them for being receptive and ethical.

 

Edited March 27 by SilverAge3

[SilverAge3]

5 hours ago, SilverAge3 said:

I noticed that Britannia's foot is also closer to the denticles on the High Tide.

Obviously the tides are different, even if i did not scale the pictures exactly the same.

Using the two PCGS  examples, both correctly, and (IMO) incorrectly attributed.

The more I look at examples, I am more convinced that the position of Britannia's foot is another marker, and like the shield, it is always much closer to the teeth than on regular/low tide.

Edited March 28 by SilverAge3

[Ukstu]

1 hour ago, SilverAge3 said:

Great Collections has responded to me, and accolades to them for being receptive and ethical.

 

Good result. Well done. 

[SilverAge3]

PCGS however....

They got back to me, well past the stated 2-3 days for response, and completely avoided my query regarding it being the wrong variety. 

Their response is a joke, right?

Their only diligence is reflected in getting more coins in their slabs, regardless how well they identify them.

 

Screenshot of email is too large, so I'll just copy and paste it (compression makes it illegible).

 

Hello xxxx,

Thank you for your interest in PCGS!

We appreciate you letting us know that you would like to send coins to us.

Please see below for our service fees and how to submit to PCGS:

There are two ways to get a coin graded: you can submit it through a local PCGS authorized dealer, or you can submit it directly to PCGS.

Option 1 - Submit via a PCGS Authorized Dealer

Many customers submit via a dealer because the dealers can often provide insight on a coin to see if it is "worth" being graded. Dealers can appraise coins, submit them to us for you, and possibly buy them or auction them once they're graded! I always recommend talking to a few dealers before submitting your coins. Check out our PCGS Authorized Dealer List to find one in your area.

Option 2 - Submit to PCGS Directly

To submit to PCGS directly, you first need to purchase a membership, which you can find here. After purchasing a membership, you can submit as many coins to PCGS as you'd like for one full year! The pricing will be per coin based on each coin's Declared Value. Please view our pricing list here. We ask that you give PCGS a declared value for each item ahead of time, as we cannot start the process on your order without having these values. This value is primarily used for insurance purposes. For the declared values, we only ask that you give us a realistic value based on the condition of your coin - this is why I always recommend speaking to a few dealers first!

There are many options for submitting to PCGS, and it can be a lot of information. Please review all the links I provided, and if you have any other questions, just let me know! 

Also, check out our PCGS FAQ here!

Learn all about your coin on PCGS Coin Facts!

Sincerely, 

Isidro G.

Associate Customer Care Representative
PCGS Customer Care

pcgs.com

 

Privileged and Confidential Communication. This electronic transmission, and any documents attached hereto, (a) are protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (18 USC §§ 2510-2521), (b) may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information, and (c) are for the sole use of the intended recipient named above. If you have received this electronic message in error, please notify the sender and delete the electronic message. Any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of the information received in error is strictly prohibited.

 

 

 

[Coys55]

On 3/27/2026 at 7:00 PM, SilverAge3 said:

Also sent more pics

Is it just me or would the "low tide" P point more at gap than a bead if the arrow was drawn as close to the edge of the P and as straight (rather than at a slight angle) as on the "high tide"?