Recent Purchace on Ebay 1898 Florin

[ozjohn]

I recently purchased this coin on Ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/273632071985?_sp=p2488212.m41214.l9765&_trkparms=itemid%3A273632071985 where it was advertised as very high grade. On receiving the coin  IMO it is VF to GVF if you are generous  which is not a very high grade. The photo in the posting was a bit out of focus which should have raised the alarm bells but I decided to give the seller the benefit of the doubt so it's basically my fault. However I think I am entitled to give the seller negative feedback. Any thoughts?

[Paddy]

To be honest, I can't see that negative feedback is justified there:

1. Is it genuine? Yes, it would seem so.

2. Is what you received the coin pictured on the listing? Yes it is, so no issue there.

3. Is his description misleading or wrong? Not really - he did not assign a formal grade. "Very High Grade" is entirely subjective and not far out. Very Fine also contains the "very" word. I would give a solid GVF to the reverse but only VF to the obverse - which is typical with Victorian silver. His pictures look OK to me - I can't see he was hiding anything there.

4. Was the price fair? Probably a bit high, but you chose to pay it.

Negative feedback is a big deal for regular sellers, so I would save it for a really bad listing. If you are really unhappy with it, ask to return it for a refund, don't hit him with a negative out of the blue.

[ozjohn]

Thanks  Paddy. Fair comment. I was a bit peeved at the time but thought I should hold my fire. Caveat Emptor. It enhances, although not foolproof, the case for TPGed coins.

Edited January 9, 2019 by ozjohn

[Unwilling Numismatist]

I'd agree 100% with Paddy, very solid advice there.

I've picked up a few of the Old heads  and have been dissappointed at how they can look better in some photographs than they are. Weak obverse strike is definitely a theme with these too.

I will disagree on the price though, and I'd say for the coin you got, it's probably a fair price (in ebay terms at least).

These aren't the easiest Florins to get hold of and you'll pay more than that for a really good one - unless you have the patience of a saint or enough time to trawl every dealer site for weeks.

 

[azda]

Everyone has their own judgement as to what's a high grade coin and what isn't, they could argue that in their opinion it is high grade, if they aren't regular sellers of coins then their opinion will be off by a mile

[blakeyboy]

4 hours ago, ozjohn said:

Thanks  Paddy. Fair comment. I was a bit peeved at the time but thought I should hold my fire. Caveat Emptor. It enhances, although not foolproof, the case for TPGed coins.

Paddy's comments are on the button.

On Ozjohn's comments about TPGs, surely the onus is on the buyer to see if the grade is what they want, and also learn how to do this, 

thus gaining experience.

 

If you only bought slabbed coins from dealers, the fun of finding a chance bargain would never happen....

[mrbadexample]

I think the obverse photo on ebay is clear enough to indicate the wear, but it's another one of those annoying photos that I can't zoom in on - there seems to be loads of them these days. Is it a function the seller has to physically disable? 

[Peter]

The seller has been on ebay since 2004 and not a newbie.If you are not satisfied return the coin. As for TPG I never would buy the slab.There are certainly pug ugly coins in plastic.

The obverse should of given you reason to doubt.

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

8 hours ago, Paddy said:

To be honest, I can't see that negative feedback is justified there:

1. Is it genuine? Yes, it would seem so.

2. Is what you received the coin pictured on the listing? Yes it is, so no issue there.

3. Is his description misleading or wrong? Not really - he did not assign a formal grade. "Very High Grade" is entirely subjective and not far out. Very Fine also contains the "very" word. I would give a solid GVF to the reverse but only VF to the obverse - which is typical with Victorian silver. His pictures look OK to me - I can't see he was hiding anything there.

4. Was the price fair? Probably a bit high, but you chose to pay it.

Negative feedback is a big deal for regular sellers, so I would save it for a really bad listing. If you are really unhappy with it, ask to return it for a refund, don't hit him with a negative out of the blue.

Well stated and wisely.......

I concur completely. ....

Edited January 9, 2019 by Bronze & Copper Collector

[1949threepence]

14 hours ago, ozjohn said:

I recently purchased this coin on Ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/273632071985?_sp=p2488212.m41214.l9765&_trkparms=itemid%3A273632071985 where it was advertised as very high grade. On receiving the coin  IMO it is VF to GVF if you are generous  which is not a very high grade. The photo in the posting was a bit out of focus which should have raised the alarm bells but I decided to give the seller the benefit of the doubt so it's basically my fault. However I think I am entitled to give the seller negative feedback. Any thoughts?

I think you've got a point with the "very high grade". This guy is an experienced seller of coins and should be able to offer a realistic actual grade such as VF/NEF, in his opinion, whilst allowing those interested to make up their own minds. Also, the fact he doesn't accept returns, is telling. 

The photography isn't ace, but it's not that bad either - certainly enough to see that the obverse especially is not "very high grade".

With that said, I definitely wouldn't give him a negative. I'd take the hit knowing it was poor decision making on my part - "caveat emptor". Been disappointed several times myself, but ultimately know that really, I should have realised before I jumped in and bought.

I'd give him a less than ringing endorsement positive, such as "prompt delivery, coin well packed". Something of that nature. He'll get the message.     

Edited January 9, 2019 by 1949threepence

[mick1271]

The listing pictures do make the coin more appealing than your photos .

[Sword]

In my view, "very high grade" simply imply that you need to grade the coin yourself. It is a very popular phrase because it means different things to different people and the seller cannot get into trouble for using it.

For me, I might think that MS65 onward are very high grades for a Old Head florin. I haven't got an example yet but will only consider getting one that is UNC or very near UNC.

Another might reasonably argue that the coin concerned, VF/GVF, is indeed a very high grade when compared to the large number of worn specimens around. 

6 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

The photography isn't ace, but it's not that bad either - certainly enough to see that the obverse especially is not "very high grade".

I totally agree with Mike regarding the photos.

Generally speaking, I think "very high grade" for Victorian coins usually mean it is less than EF. 

 

Edited January 9, 2019 by Sword

[Nick]

I think you'd be within your rights to send it back because it is not as described.  It is described as very high grade and it is not.

[1949threepence]

4 hours ago, Nick said:

I think you'd be within your rights to send it back because it is not as described.  It is described as very high grade and it is not.

Actually, I disagree. The seller's get out clause is in his description, particularly the bit in bold:-

Quote

 

YOU ARE BIDDING ON A QUEEN VICTORIA FLORIN / TWO SHILLING

DATED 1898

THIS IS A VERY HIGH GRADE COIN

THE PHOTOS ARE OF THE ACTUAL COIN FOR SALE PLEASE VIEW THEM TO CONFIRM CONDITION. THE PHOTOS ARE TAKEN IN NATURAL LIGHT

 

He could argue that in his subjective opinion it is very high grade, but that the onus was on the buyer to decide whether in fact that was the case, based on the pics.  

It all depends on how you define "very high grade". Note he hasn't used a more definitive term like "GEF".