Coinery Posted September 16, 2017 Posted September 16, 2017 This slabbing thing still amazes me! Yes, weak strike, soft strike, clogged devices...yet, with even all that taken into consideration, there is still nothing about even the best of the remaining devices that could warrant the grade! 152705034251 Quote
Rob Posted September 16, 2017 Posted September 16, 2017 Should be A(lmost) U(nreadable) 15ish. There's no way that 50% of the legend is illegible. Quote
argentumandcoins Posted September 16, 2017 Posted September 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, Coinery said: This slabbing thing still amazes me! Yes, weak strike, soft strike, clogged devices...yet, with even all that taken into consideration, there is still nothing about even the best of the remaining devices that could warrant the grade! 152705034251 Just goes to show that if you buy slabbed coins you should leave your eyes (and brain) at the door on the way into the shop. AU50 must mean less than VF on PCGS does it? I'm no expert on that issue but if I was grading on appearance it would come in around Fine. Quote
Coinery Posted September 16, 2017 Author Posted September 16, 2017 Yes, even a claim of GF would have me returning to look at it over and over, before finally saying (at best) "mmm, ok, in some people's eyes...maybe...but there's no way I'd be parting with a penny above recent sales documented at fine grade for the variety." What a shocker! Quote
Exbrit Manx Posted September 16, 2017 Posted September 16, 2017 I've seen slightly different comparisons, but here is one: The table below shows how one scale relates to another based on our grading using standard terms, and our experience and observations of the numerical scales. It should be noted that the prefixes accompanying the US grades typically imply a higher grade than the UK grading terms (e.g. AU = VF-EF). Raw grade US grade(Sheldon) CGS grade Choice UNC MS66 - MS70 90-100 UNC MS64 - MS65 82-90 About UNC MS62 - MS63 80 GEF MS60 - MS61 75-78 EF AU58 - MS60 65-70 NEF AU55 55-60 GVF AU53 45-50 VF AU50 40 NVF EF45 35 GF VF35 - EF40 25-30 F VF20 - VF30 20 But: I have also seen some British auctions that follow the US scale more than UK. Australia is another story. 1 Quote
Ukstu Posted September 17, 2017 Posted September 17, 2017 The cost of slabbing that plus postage probably exceeds its value. I'd pay no more than £20-25 for that outside that holder. The mind boggles sometimes when i see some slabbed coins. It's not even a rare coin either. Quote
Exbrit Manx Posted September 17, 2017 Posted September 17, 2017 Another comparison chart; UK GRADING Traditional US (ANA) SHELDON SCALE Poor PO-1 Poor Fair FR-2 Almost Good AG-3 Fair Good G-4 Almost Fine Very Good VG-8 Fine Fine F-12 Good Fine Very Fine VF-20 Very Fine (Choice) Very Fine VF-30 Good Very Fine. (Choice) Extremely Fine EF-45 Nearly EF Extremely Fine About UNC AU-50 Good EF (Choice) About UNC AU-55 (Very Choice) About UNC AU-58 About UNC Uncirculated MS/PR-60 About UNC Uncirculated MS/PR-61 About UNC Uncirculated MS/PR-62 Uncirculated Uncirculated MS/PR-63 Quote
Rob Posted September 17, 2017 Posted September 17, 2017 That last seems overly generous. I've not seen many 60s that warrant better than EF. Uncs are rarely less than 64 and even 65s are often hopelssly optimistic. The bank token I got rid of on account of wear to the laurel, yet got slabbed 66 springs to mind too. We are in danger of having a complete generation with rose-tinted spectacles when it comes to grading. The alternative is to extend the Sheldon scale to encompass the things that are better than 'uncirculated'.There has been a large amount of upwards grade drift over the past generation. Quote
Coinery Posted September 17, 2017 Author Posted September 17, 2017 (edited) I'm just grateful that, for the most part, the grades belonging to raw hammered coins remain blissfully simple. Edited September 17, 2017 by Coinery 1 Quote
Rob Posted September 17, 2017 Posted September 17, 2017 2 hours ago, Coinery said: I'm just grateful that, for the most part, the grades belonging to raw hammered coins remain blissfully simple. I guess that numismatic slabbing is the equivalent of sciences and the arts in academia. In theory, milled coinage slabbing should just be a straight forward measurement of wear, whereas a hammered coin can be as struck, but flat, or in the case of some of the heavy chunky ancients, have good detail but be relatively low grade, i.e. they are the arts side where the number on the slab is irrelevant, and as always in the arts, beauty in the eye of the beholder. I still stick by my two point grading scale. Quote
Sword Posted September 17, 2017 Posted September 17, 2017 16 hours ago, Exbrit Manx said: I've seen slightly different comparisons, but here is one: The table below shows how one scale relates to another based on our grading using standard terms, and our experience and observations of the numerical scales. It should be noted that the prefixes accompanying the US grades typically imply a higher grade than the UK grading terms (e.g. AU = VF-EF). Raw grade US grade(Sheldon) CGS grade Choice UNC MS66 - MS70 90-100 UNC MS64 - MS65 82-90 About UNC MS62 - MS63 80 GEF MS60 - MS61 75-78 EF AU58 - MS60 65-70 NEF AU55 55-60 GVF AU53 45-50 VF AU50 40 NVF EF45 35 GF VF35 - EF40 25-30 F VF20 - VF30 20 But: I have also seen some British auctions that follow the US scale more than UK. Australia is another story. I rather like this table as TPG (or FPG in the case of LCGS) tend to pretend their numbers convert to excessively high raw grades. As a minor point, I think MS67-70 merit a stronger adjective than "choice". MS64 or CGS82 for UNC sounds about right. CGS 80 can have a bit too much cabinet friction (aka wear) to be called UNC in strict grading in my view. (I would suggest CGS 80-78/75 as About UNC rather than just 80) MS60 = EF sounds about right too. Quote
Sword Posted September 17, 2017 Posted September 17, 2017 Looks like LCGS no longer believes in slabbing hammered coins. They are selling all their milled coins slabbed on their website but all the hammered are now sold raw. http://www.londoncoins.co.uk/?page=retail_coins&cat=7 Quote
TomGoodheart Posted September 17, 2017 Posted September 17, 2017 AU50? Good grief. PCGS only gave this a VF30 grade. Which is largely why nowadays I go by eye appeal and tend to ignore other people's grading when buying. Quote
Coinery Posted September 17, 2017 Author Posted September 17, 2017 2 hours ago, Rob said: I guess that numismatic slabbing is the equivalent of sciences and the arts in academia. In theory, milled coinage slabbing should just be a straight forward measurement of wear, whereas a hammered coin can be as struck, but flat, or in the case of some of the heavy chunky ancients, have good detail but be relatively low grade, i.e. they are the arts side where the number on the slab is irrelevant, and as always in the arts, beauty in the eye of the beholder. I still stick by my two point grading scale. I 100% agree with you, and I'm guessing your 2 point grading system is quite simply: grade 1 - I like/want it! grade 2 - I don't like/need it! I'd have to add a third tier to that grading system, however, the... "grade 3 - holy mother of god I so, SO, want that!" ...kind of grade/variety! Quote
Coinery Posted September 17, 2017 Author Posted September 17, 2017 They know nuffin, TG, absolutely nuffin! Quote
jaggy Posted September 17, 2017 Posted September 17, 2017 (edited) The problem with grading is that it is an art and not a science. We have all seen grades that we disagree with and that have sometimes shocked us and it really doesn't matter whether it is the TPG doing the grading, an auction house, a dealer or an individual. I have had some good surprises and plenty of bad surprises. My experience of NGC is that they have been pretty strict. My experience of LCGS is that they either overgrade or that their mapping to US grades is out by a couple of points. My experience of buying non-slabbed coins at auction is that they are often overgraded; "almost mint" is usually far from that. And there are plenty of dealers who overgrade too. Ultimately, you have to buy the coin and not the grade. But you also have to understand that, if buying on the basis of a photo, that it can be 'doctored'. There is a lot of risk involved. Buying from a dealer in whom you have trust can substantially reduce the risk. And, despite the above, buying slabbed coins also reduces the risk as, for the most part, they tend to get it more or less right. Edited September 17, 2017 by jaggy 1 Quote
Peter Posted September 17, 2017 Posted September 17, 2017 6 hours ago, Coinery said: I'm just grateful that, for the most part, the grades belonging to raw hammered coins remain blissfully simple. Either you like it or you don't. 1 Quote
Coinery Posted September 17, 2017 Author Posted September 17, 2017 18 minutes ago, Peter said: Either you like it or you don't. Nail on the head, Peter! ? Quote
pokal02 Posted September 22, 2017 Posted September 22, 2017 .6 or 10 different values of Unc/MS is absurd by any standards. A coin is either Unc/MS or it isn't. The next highest grade should be GEF. (I accept that some coins have more so-called eye appeal than others, but that shouldn't affect the grade) Fortunately 95% of my stuff is between F and VF so I don't need to worry about such things. Quote
Ukstu Posted October 9, 2017 Posted October 9, 2017 Any ideas what it eventually sold for? I can't find it now. Quote
Ukstu Posted October 9, 2017 Posted October 9, 2017 Ahhh. I forgotten. I thought it was auction. I might just slab a few of mine if there pulling in around that mark ? Quote
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