1970 & 1971 Proof sets help

[pokal02]

A quick query - can anyone confirm the original price asked by the Mint for these?  I bought both all those years ago but can't find any record of how much they cost - would guess at about £4?  

[bagerap]

1970 8 coin set £8.75

1971 six coin set £8.85

[PWA 1967]

After nearly fifty years they still sell for less 

[bagerap]

1970 8 coin set £8.75

1971 six coin set £8.85

 

I've just realised that the info comes from Krause  SCWC, so substitute $ for £

[VickySilver]

Ok, I confess that I still like the 1970 set - perhaps a bit sentimental!

[pokal02]

Thanks - I know the exchange rate in 1970 was fixed at 2.4/£1 which gives £3.65.  The £ started floating in 1971 (not sure what month or indeed what month the proof set was issued) - but it doesn't seem to have moved much in that year so I'm thinking probably the same price in £ for the '71. 

[bagerap]

Pound started to float around the start of March 71

[Peckris]

7 hours ago, pokal02 said:

Thanks - I know the exchange rate in 1970 was fixed at 2.4/£1 which gives £3.65.  The £ started floating in 1971 (not sure what month or indeed what month the proof set was issued) - but it doesn't seem to have moved much in that year so I'm thinking probably the same price in £ for the '71. 

Not relevant - the 1970 set wasn't issued in 1970 or anywhere near. It seems to have been struck between 1972 or 1973 and the mid-70s. It certainly postdates the 1972 set, and was probably issued due to collector demand at first, then it became more widely popular and more were  struck.

[pokal02]

My vague memory was that it was the 72 to 75 sets that were issued late (all together in about 1976?) I thought the 70 and 71 had been issued previously but could be that all 6 were issued together.   

Incidentally I've now seen £3.15 quoted (in Collectors Coins - Decimal)d as the issue price for the '71 - but this too apparently taken from Krause & converted.  

[Peter]

They are a big loss leader.I bought 10 sets off Pete for £40.Do I like them? The only one I admire is the 1970 set.The rest just get tucked away.I pity mugs for buying them in the 1st place. RM hang your heads in shame.

BTW RM were trying to sell post 1920 6d's for £24.95 and these were circulated Jizz.

[pokal02]

The individual coins (the 50p's anyway) - seem to go for as much/more than the sets - I guess anyone with a few would be better off breaking them up. 

[Peckris]

4 hours ago, pokal02 said:

My vague memory was that it was the 72 to 75 sets that were issued late (all together in about 1976?) I thought the 70 and 71 had been issued previously but could be that all 6 were issued together.   

I was mistaken. In the November 1972 edition of Coin Monthly, there is an isolated advert for 1970 sets, and another that included singletons, though there is no mention of them in the 'Market Movements' section, so it's possible that they had begun to be minted in 1972. There is no mention of a 1971 set, though there is no mention of decimal coins anywhere in the magazine.

ESC (1974 edition) mentions both 1970 and 1971 sets, but not 1972. My impression is that the 1972 set was produced earlier than 1973-76 which - as you say - were issued all together in around 1976. Certainly the 1972 set is packaged differently from the next 3 or 4, which are all the same apart from the colour of the card folder and foam insert.

[Sleepy]

My 1976 CYB has only has the 1970 and 1971 listed so the 1972 can't have been issued prior to 1975.

[Peckris]

5 hours ago, Sleepy said:

My 1976 CYB has only has the 1970 and 1971 listed so the 1972 can't have been issued prior to 1975.

I've just had a look in the December 1974 issue of Coin Monthly. Apart from one advertiser, there is only ONE advert selling a 1970 set, and none selling UK decimal coins, proofs or otherwise. It seems that the readers of Coin Monthly had little interest in decimals at that point. However, on page 135, there is an advert by M Coeshaw (Leicester), in which - as well as featuring BU Coin Sets of 1953, 1962-1967, and 1971 - he features, in a section called 'Choice Sets of the World', 

BRITAIN 1970 Last sterling PROOF set.....

BRITAIN 1971 First decimal PROOF set.....

and 

BRITAIN Silver Wedding set of 7 coins 50p to 1/2p (inc 1972 25p)....    BU £2.00

Interestingly he doesn't describe these as proofs, but they must be as there are no 1972 coins that aren't, apart from the 25p. So the 1972 set had been issued by the end of 1974 (but perhaps only just, as they aren't mentioned in ESC 1974?), but the 1973-1976 sets appeared - as you say - in the mid-70s, but obviously after December 1974.

Edited May 29, 2017 by Peckris

[Michael-Roo]

 

I have a 'Coins Annual 1972' (so probably published towards the end of '71?) in which I've found a full page advertisement  from F.J Jeffery & Son. Included in the 'Sets of the World' section of their ad is 'GB 1970 proof (8)' for which £1 deposit per set is required. Would this have been for orders taken in advance of the mint issuing them? In the current British coins prices pages of the same book, under 'Proof and Specimen Sets' there is no mention of anything post 1953.

Edited May 29, 2017 by Michael-Roo

[Peckris]

"Curiouser and curiouser" said Alice...

My 1976 Seaby's (which would have been prepared and issued during 1975) lists only the 1970 and 1971 sets under "Proof sets".

I suspect therefore that the Coeshaw advert of 1974 was for a made up set of BU coins, probably dated 1971 but including the 1972 crown, and optimistically described as a Silver Wedding Set.

[whitedb]

I can confirm that the 1970 proof set was sold in 1971.  I am looking at my order confirmation, number A0447, dated 9 Nov 1971.  I recall that the price was £3.00.  I can't confirm with a receipt but my contemporary notes record this figure. In today's money it would be £42.65

I bought the 1971 -1975 sets in 1975, I think, for £25 for the five sets. They were direct from the mint and came in paper envelopes.  Given that £5 in 1975 would be £47.90 today they were not a good "investment"

[copper123]

12 hours ago, whitedb said:

I can confirm that the 1970 proof set was sold in 1971.  I am looking at my order confirmation, number A0447, dated 9 Nov 1971.  I recall that the price was £3.00.  I can't confirm with a receipt but my contemporary notes record this figure. In today's money it would be £42.65

I bought the 1971 -1975 sets in 1975, I think, for £25 for the five sets. They were direct from the mint and came in paper envelopes.  Given that £5 in 1975 would be £47.90 today they were not a good "investment"

like most royal mint tat over the last 40 years

[pokal02]

Presumably the 1972 set would have been priced higher as it included the crown - so either £9 for that & £4 for the others, or £7 (1972) and £4.50 (others) to make £25.  (seems high compared to £3 for the 1970 but I guess inflation was rampant between '71 & '75).

Edited May 31, 2017 by pokal02

[copper123]

5 hours ago, pokal02 said:

Presumably the 1972 set would have been priced higher as it included the crown - so either £9 for that & £4 for the others, or £7 (1972) and £4.50 (others) to make £25.  (seems high compared to £3 for the 1970 but I guess inflation was rampant between '71 & '75).

I dont remember it being much more expensive , the 1972 one  , not even sure if it had the crown in it I know the 1977 one did

The 1970 set was very , very popular  and indeed the reason proof sets were issued for every year till now ,

[copper123]

it did have the crown in it

[Peckris]

On 30 May 2017 at 7:22 PM, whitedb said:

I can confirm that the 1970 proof set was sold in 1971.  I am looking at my order confirmation, number A0447, dated 9 Nov 1971.  I recall that the price was £3.00.  I can't confirm with a receipt but my contemporary notes record this figure. In today's money it would be £42.65

I bought the 1971 -1975 sets in 1975, I think, for £25 for the five sets. They were direct from the mint and came in paper envelopes.  Given that £5 in 1975 would be £47.90 today they were not a good "investment"

"Sold FROM 1971" I would say - as Copper says, the 1970 set was very popular (and still is) so they carried on minting them up to the issue limit of 750,000. Its popularity is not surprising considering it was the only proofs of the main Elizabeth II post-1953 type, and was of the vanishing £sd coinage.

Several of the 1970s sets contain 'proof only' denominations, which might have made them more desirable to collectors, especially the 1972 set. However, it's likely that a 'modern collectors' market - i.e. decimals - was already developing then, as Coin Monthly seems to show little interest in UK decimals even by 1975, and doesn't even feature 1970 proofs in its Market Movements.

(I don't think you would have bought the sets in 1975 - certainly not before the preparation of Seaby 1976 - as there is no mention in Seaby of anything post-1971 under Proof Sets. Unfortunately Seaby took a break of a few years after 1976 so we can't date them precisely unless someone has coin magazines for the period 1976-1979?)