1860 Bronzed Proof Penny - Photos

[cathrine]

Here's my photos of the coin that arrived yesterday. These photos look more like the PCGS rather than the Spink photos, except that I'm unable to capture the reflective proof surfaces and some of the high definition of the proof strike in the obverse's hair, wreath, and ribbon details.

[secret santa]

Really nice coin and that's how photos of my own F4 come out - wonder how PCGS make the coin look so perfect ????????

[azda]

Is the scratch by the helmet on the slab? Also (maybe over critical) although enlarging the pic on the REV, there are also some (cleaning?) scratches around the trident area

[PWA 1967]

Lovely coin but had some work done and obvious signs of cleaning.

If you buy a coin for £1k and do some work is it worth £2k .

In my opinion you pay the price its worth and people spending that money know its scarce/rare or worked on and does keep the price down but thats why you paid less.

A collection of pennies /half pennies was sold a couple of years ago and some went cheap as had pvc residue.

You have a choice nice coin or one witrh faults ?

Which would you buy as if you clean them its because you were not happy in the first place 

CLEANING COINS  just keeps more in the market for collectors.

Please look......... and if you have doubts pass.

People want to clean them for personal gain and should not off bought them ,all this conservation,preservation is CLEANED.

Nobody is trying to preserve a coin unless they want to sell it as wont make any difference.

I WANT TO PRESERVE A COIN I HAVE THAT HAS XXXXXX BECAUSE I WANT TO SELL IT FOR LESS  

[PWA 1967]

In my opinion from the pictures its had actectone/acid treatment .

Couple of spots that will come back and not removed properley.

Also some work done after with a cotton bud and then been lightly wizzed on the reverse.

Not the nicest proof coin .....but still worth buying at the right price.

[brg5658]

Is this the same coin that Atlas Numismatics recently sold on their site?

PCGS PF66: http://www.pcgs.com/cert/81706769/

 

[PWA 1967]

No this is the cleaned version  before and after however they have a few more if you want one .

[brg5658]

Nevermind, I see the other thread of the same title that @cathrine posted.  

Boy, @PWA 1967, you sure are a catty fella.  

[PWA 1967]

What does catty mean 

[PWA 1967]

If i pay a good few quid for a coin i ask a couple of people for there opinion if they are both happy with the coin and the price happy .

Does not matter if slabbed or not as i trust them both 100% and better to get other opinions as well as my own 

I dont profess to be an expert in fact far from but think i know a cleaned coin 

[cathrine]

I've also noticed some scratches and/or hairlines in the photos, and I wonder if they're are on the slab external surface or on the coin's easily damaged proof surface. Since I can't remove the coin from the slab without violating the seller's return privilege conditions, my alternative possibilities are: (1) Polish the slab surface and take new photos, or (2) Attempt to narrow the photos' depth-of-field to focus on the slab surface and also on the coin's field surface.

Probably any polishing of the slab's surface would be considered as a violation of the slab's integrity and would be grounds for violation of the return privilege. So, tomorrow I'll attempt to play with the depth-of-field and see what (if anything) can be learned from such an exercise.

By the way, all of the member's comments are welcome. I have no position that I need to justify; I merely solicited the member's comments (catty or not), and I'm grateful for the responses. 

 

[azda]

The scratch by the helmet is also on the Spink picture, so that was there previously and I can also see the faint lines around the trident on the Spink one as well

Edited November 10, 2016 by azda

[Paulus]

I so hope we are not uncovering some greed-motivated wrong-doings here 

 

[1949threepence]

The new pics above still show a very nice proof, albeit with a few light scratches on the reverse.

[secret santa]

No-one yet has answered my question as to how PGCS managed to produce such fantastic photos.......

[1949threepence]

9 minutes ago, secret santa said:

No-one yet has answered my question as to how PGCS managed to produce such fantastic photos.......

I too would love to know that.

[azda]

50 minutes ago, secret santa said:

No-one yet has answered my question as to how PGCS managed to produce such fantastic photos.......

Perhaps because no one here works for PCGS and we can't answer for them lol 

[azda]

1 hour ago, cathrine said:

I've also noticed some scratches and/or hairlines in the photos, and I wonder if they're are on the slab external surface or on the coin's easily damaged proof surface. Since I can't remove the coin from the slab without violating the seller's return privilege conditions, my alternative possibilities are: (1) Polish the slab surface and take new photos, or (2) Attempt to narrow the photos' depth-of-field to focus on the slab surface and also on the coin's field surface.

Probably any polishing of the slab's surface would be considered as a violation of the slab's integrity and would be grounds for violation of the return privilege. So, tomorrow I'll attempt to play with the depth-of-field and see what (if anything) can be learned from such an exercise.

By the way, all of the member's comments are welcome. I have no position that I need to justify; I merely solicited the member's comments (catty or not), and I'm grateful for the responses. 

 

Catherine, my opinion, for what it's worth to you is this, send it back and get bidding on the one at Londoncoins with the Wyon provenance (sorry Atlas)

[PWA 1967]

I spoke to a dealer about three months ago who was on his way home from viewing some coins in an auction in Spain.

He had paid flights taxis etc.

The next week after the auction i asked if he had bought anything.

Nothing Pete but money well spent was his answer............Makes a lot of sense as he had seen them and new what to pay.

[bagerap]

Cathrine, I don't have the experience of most of the other members. However, I am a dealer in medals and very many of those from this period remain in pristine condition. If this coin were a medal, I'd return it as not as described. I am more than familiar with this portrait and there is an irregularity around the top of the neck I do not like which, coupled with the termination of the left hand ribbon make this a no from me.

[Nordle11]

6 hours ago, bagerap said:

Cathrine, I don't have the experience of most of the other members. However, I am a dealer in medals and very many of those from this period remain in pristine condition. If this coin were a medal, I'd return it as not as described. I am more than familiar with this portrait and there is an irregularity around the top of the neck I do not like which, coupled with the termination of the left hand ribbon make this a no from me.

I wouldn't go as far as not described because the PCGS picture shows those faults, however if I'd bought the coin based on the PCGS picture, then received a coin looking more like Catherine's pictures, I'd return it too. 

[Nordle11]

7 hours ago, azda said:

Catherine, my opinion, for what it's worth to you is this, send it back and get bidding on the one at Londoncoins with the Wyon provenance (sorry Atlas)

I'm in agreement with azda, it'll probably cost you less too as Atlas do seem to be in the upper echelons of the pricing band. 

[Chingford]

In my own opinion, Atlas have been open and honest about the coin, they have not hidden the fact when asked that the coin has treated/cleaned, but it has been done professionally but I do feel if a coin has been treated it should be disclosed on the slab.

I am sure that when NGC first started the conservation side, before PCGS started offering the service, coins were cleaned and graded but the slab stated NGC Conservation on them, seems now this isn't the case anymore, probably down to pressure from Clients

[secret santa]

Cathrine, I don't know what you paid for the coin but I'd be inclined to keep it. These coins very rarely survive in pristine condition unless they've been protected from day one and your own coin photos show exactly how most of these early proofs appear in hand. I just wish I had the knowledge to photograph my coins in the way that PCGS did - my collection would look absolutely stunning !

[Nordle11]

9 minutes ago, secret santa said:

Cathrine, I don't know what you paid for the coin but I'd be inclined to keep it. These coins very rarely survive in pristine condition unless they've been protected from day one and your own coin photos show exactly how most of these early proofs appear in hand. I just wish I had the knowledge to photograph my coins in the way that PCGS did - my collection would look absolutely stunning !

For what it's worth, I think your pictures convey the actual coins very well and would much prefer seeing them as they are than with the 'improvement' filter applied