terrysoldpennies

Its strange the all the rotated letter Ps and Es are all in the word PENNY , with no variation to the E in ONE which as far as I can tell always points to the gap. Also that they are mostly on 1861s with the close 1 in the date. I wonder whether this was some kind of test series of rev Gs before settling on the P to gap type right through to 1874 Terry

I should add that on all the rev Gs I have look at this left rotation of the P to face the tooth only appears on the 1861s , and not on any other year right through to 1874, but some in 1861 and 1862 have a slight rotation to the right, and a right rotation of the first N in PENNY. As with this 6+g 1861 below. Terry

Both look to be the same date spacings. common type , but the left looks like the single Exergue , though as you say not easy to tell from pictures Terry p s All the new different date types were bought from America , I wonder if some sort of special issue of pennies were despatch to or made by the Americans during the War

Right Bob . I have confused things. Pic of all 4 ,second down is the common type, the bottom coin in the pic of 2 . and the third down is the top one in pic of 2 Sorry for the confusion Terry

That was a poor picture. The common one is on the bottom with the 4 too the right side of the gap Terry

All four are Double Exergue. Terry

Hi Dave , I'm not sure too much has been made of the differences between the rev.C and C* , as the date width is the only major thing of significance between them . The 1944 isn't the only date width year around that time . below are four differing 1940 dates . note the top one has the 4 over the gap and the 0 over the tooth, and the bottom the 4 is onto the tooth ,with the 0 over the gap. The common type is the second down. Terry

Not sure if you think this a significant variation , but well here it is . pic 1, Top - P in PENNY points to the gap as on almost all G types. Bottom - P is rotated sharply left, and points almost to the tooth, and it also has the E rotated slightly to the left. This is a rare combination 1861 type Freeman 20 2+g [ Gouby D+g rated R7 . I have only seen one other on a 2+g but have also seen an example on a F28 5+g [ Gouby H+g ] . Terry

No, Matt , others with about 10% . The interest with this one is that we are starting with an already rare type . Terry

Your right Matt, Its just a matter of interest on my part , and not anything to do with value

Thanks Pete , the one with rotation seems to the rarer of the two , I also notice that the obv. side on your no rotation coin as with mine is less warn than the Rev. suggesting it is proud on the rev. and depressed on the obv. . Its the other way around on the Rotated die type . Also yours has the straight bottom on the E in PENNY , Richard said he had one with the wavy bottom. Terry

Pete , is there any die rotation, as I have one with about 10% ,and the other is normal . Terry

That's lucky of you john , as you say I have a higher grade 66 than you , but have yet to find a 67 . Terry

Jerry ,I have had a good close look at the Exergue on the wavy type with the magnifying glass , and there are minute scratches across the whole width of Exergue, suggesting that as on the missing sea types, this area of the top of the die has been rubbed with some kind of abrasive , and this would mean that the britanniar area would be higher ,and press down with greater force . with the excess of metal forced towards the digits in the exergue. I think this pressure would be less where some of the metal could move into the numbers , but on the open flat part of the exergue it would squash downwards, resulting in a wavy line . I think ???? Terry

Well spotted Ian , both were done on the same scanner , so it cant be a difference in the shadow cast by the digits. Terry

Its strange, as I can't find it on any of the other sixties pennies , and to be on such a modern coin. Terry

I found this the other day. It seems to be scarce-ish about 1 in 50 , and as far as I know unlisted Terry

Richard the new 1909 rare list has example 3 and 7 duplicated

Jerry, the thing which is going to make the 2* rarer, is that it can only be identified if in a reasonable condition, coins like the F41 can be washers and still be clearly of the type. Richard one coin I consider to be much rarer than the R9 given be Freeman is the 1909 F192 2+e , I do think its rare enough to be on your list Terry

Well done , Its got to worth much more than that , its an R17 - R18 and with the New Freeman book only just having come onto the market , the price should only go one way Terry

Sorry I've not answered sooner, only she indoors took me on a rest from the pennies , something called a holiday . Anyway I digress , it seems some kind of experimentation was being undertaken by the mint during 1958 . I'm not sure of the types my self ,as the wide border type according to Freeman should have short teeth , where as I find them to all be longer. Gouby states that he can find no difference in the types , and so has not listed them. There clearly are a few differing types. You and I must keep looking, and see if we can find all of them. Terry

You've found one at last Richard . Did they know what they were selling , or was it a bargain. As to the Rarity , this is only the fifth in three years of me looking. Terry

As you can see from my findings , I only found one length of tooth on the wide rim type , so I would like to see some pics of the two types, if possible, as that would bring the total number types to five Terry

I looked at these variations some years ago, and sort of came to the conclusion that there might be four types , though the differences are so slight that it's hard to be totally sure, any way I scanned all of them and placed sections of all four together for comparison . Terry 1 has a narrow rim with the shortest teeth 2 slightly longer teeth with slightly wider rim 3 is very similar to 2 but the teeth do seem a fraction longer 4 has the longest teeth and widest rim