terrysoldpennies

I've been scratching around in my boxes of pennies, to see if I could find the 1909 penny Mr Cole describes as, quote. ' The upper portion of the area between the plume and the back of Britannia's head is raised up from the flan'. I found this coin in the box, and I assume its the one he is talking about. it appears as a line which runs both below the helmet passing through the plume , and above the hooked shaped part of the helmet. It looks to be a die clash mark, as it follows the same line as the Ghosting of Edwards bust, which shows through on the reverse side of this coin. Terry

That's great Pete . thanks again . Terry

Sorry this link is more direct.http://collection.royalmintmuseum.org.uk/?mwsQueryTemplate=%5B%7Bcontrol%3DcountryList%7D%7Bindex%3Dcountry%7D%7Brelation%3D*%3D*%7D%5D%5B%7Bcontrol%3DrulerList%7D%7Bindex%3Druler%7D%7Brelation%3D*%3D*%7D%5D%5B%7Bcontrol%3DdenominationList%7D%7Bindex%3Ddenomination%7D%7Brelation%3D*%3D*%7D%5D%5B%7Bcontrol%3DdateList%7D%7Bindex%3Ddate%7D%7Brelation%3D*%3D*%7D%5D&countryList=United+Kingdom&rulerList=Edward+VIII&denominationList=penny&dateList=1937&page=resulta

Great Richard, just pop me down for couple please. Just thought you might like the link to the Mints Edw. viii pennies http://www.royalmintmuseum.org.uk/Default.aspx?PageID=13601015&A=SearchResult&SearchID=2355145&ObjectID=13601015&ObjectType=1 Terry

Oh Richard ,you really should get out more ,as should I. Terry

It was easier in Freemans day , no on line flak then

I have to agree, Freeman, is the reference most used by collectors and dealers, and as such should not be changed to much. Changing the F numbers to year references was what Gouby tried , which was well meant , but it has not replaced Freeman. with the F numbers still very much in use. Adding a letter for new found dies as he did with the 164a I feel should be the way forward. and as Richard says adding an abbreviated description after that for various types , with maybe the date variations [8 over 6s etc narrow 3s ] with the date widths, expressed as a 13 tooth / 16 tooth etc last , but not as another set of numbers or letters, as this is where it is somewhat confusing with Gouby. But then Buggered if I know, yes Buggered if I know. Terry

Get well soon Pete, I think most of the NHS problems are just over exaggerated media hype . Terry

Terry

I agree with the A B C system for major variations, but I collect these plus date variations , now I know that its not most peoples area of interest , but there are some long established collectors like Ian [Alfnail] . I have come up with about eight differing unlisted date width types ,some extremely rare which have little value , but the interest in them is growing, as can be seen by the 189 6 extremely wide date penny in at best Fine condition sold on LCA for £200 . Now Goubys date width list is pretty comprehensive , listed as A B C etc and not as a say a 12 tooth narrow date or say a 16 tooth wide date ,which can instantly be recognised . With a numbered or Lettered system you find yourself having to refer to the manual all the time. I feel though, this would only be applicable to date widths. Terry

Yes we should not assume he would ,in a way that's why I for one would consider your judgment, as being measured and informed . One type in question would be the Hollow Neck , classified as Gouby X , which is of course a totally new found die. It really should be listed in Freeman as a F171a, in a similar way to say the F164a, but a coin like the VIGTORIA will obviously be a highly sort after type , but is only in fact an error coin, so where should it be placed. Terry

I agree with what you say Richard, but the using of two systems is already confusing , what I tend to do is think in terms of the year , and the major definition in freeman , and if its a sub variation of one of them , then add after it the Gouby definition. Of course a new type find I suppose should be give a Gouby classification , unless it is a new die discovery, then who decides where to place it, Is Michael willing to adjudicate, or would you . Terry

That's great Pete, thanks. Terry

Pete, I sent a message about this some days ago via the message box . can you let me know if it arrived , or is it not working . Terry

Well actually your small 0 penny creates an even bigger conundrum , as on all of the small 0s I have found, all had the wavy E in PENNY & on the E in ONE ,whereas the one you show has wavy in ONE and straight in PENNY, that's as far as I can tell from your picture. But this still show that the wavy Es are only found on small 0 types. see mine above Terry

Hi I have been out all evening sorry, on the reverse B the gap between the 0 & 5 only vary because of the 0 being smaller and slightly narrower, the overall width of the date is the same on both F160 types [Rev B] ,but the rev C is slightly narrower. its the fact that I have only found the wavy E to be present on coins with the small 0 type date . terry

No Matt , not between the F160 & the F161 as both have the straight bottom to the E, but the new F160 if we may call it F160a has the wavy E . Terry

Good to see you back Matt . Did you see my post in Confirmed Unlisted Varieties on the 29th , I would welcome your thoughts on it . Terry

No your right Jerry , just a little cooler, all though unlike you, moving to a new large farmhouse , we will be downsizing in a few years time. Terry

Its funny when everyone thinks of Essex , they go errr . but this is Essex and this is my house and view. Terry

Jerry, I have a recessed ear type without the broken tooth , so I would assume that the tooth broke during 1915, and continued in use with the broken tooth into 1916. Terry ps being quite warn it is clearly recessed in the centre .

Hopefully you've all had a good Christmas, and as its now over I have a new type for the New Year . I'm sure most of you know that there are two types of 1905 penny listed, the F160 with the E in PENNY pointing to the gap between the teeth [ early type] , and the F161 with the rotated E pointing to the tooth [late type]. Well I noticed some time ago that some of the F160s have a small zero in the date, this by its self seemed of little importance , but I later realised that all of the pennies with the large zero , both F160s and F161s all have the straight bottoms to the Es in PENNY, whereas the small zero type, on all the examples I have managed to find , have the wavy bottomed Es. The straight and wavy Es were both in use from 1899 through to 1905, but only the straight type from then on. The small zero was used from 1901 to 1905, and after this the large zero from 1905 to 1908. This means that it is a transitional type reverse die used between the 1904 F159 and the 1905 F160. It also suggests that the differing bottoms to the Es, was a Font change, rather than a warn die creation. As if it was caused by wear, then you would expect to find at least some of the F160s and the F161s with the large zeros to have the wavy Es . Terry Top :- New type F160 Middle :- F160 Bottom :- F161

Its a Freeman 2+D [Gouby D+D ] Terry

I'm slipping how did I manage to miss that one. Terry

I could not believe it when it came up on E.bay. a buy it now £4, postage included, but I certainly sweated buckets when I thought it had gone missing. Terry