secret santa

I believe the table below accurately lists the various 1953 pennies: Date Gouby Freeman Description rarity die pair name die pair no. 1953 A+a BP1953K 1*+D F243A Toothed obverse & reverse R9 1953 B+a - 1+A - Beaded obverse/toothed reverse Mule - Not proof R9 1953 B+b BP1953A 1+B F245 Circulation issue N 1953 C+a BP1953L - - Matt proof sold in April 1985 R9 1953 C+b BP1953P 1+B F246 Bronze proof R5 1953 C+b - 1+B - Matt proof (for photographic purposes) R9 1953 B+a BP1953M 1+A F244 From the V.I.P.proof set (Mule) R9 1953 B+x BP1953N - - Circulation obverse; toothless reverse PU 1953 C*+b BP1953R - - Pattern obverse (122 beads)/toothed reverse Mule R9 The only coin I haven't seen pictured is the coin defined as BP1953L (Matt proof) sold in April 1985. The Proof coin in the VIP set is interesting because not only is it a mule with toothed reverse, it also has the obverse design used on circulation pennies (121 beads; A of ELIZABETH points to tooth) rather than that used in the standard proof sets (120 beads; A of ELIZABETH points to gap). The coin sold by Spink in Dec 2014 was BP1953R. Oh dear, I pasted a Word table in but it hasn't come out properly - I'll try again. Ignore the above

I believe the table below accurately lists the various 1953 pennies: Date Gouby Freeman Description rarity die pair name die pair no. 1953 A+a BP1953K 1*+D F243A Toothed obverse & reverse R9 1953 B+a - 1+A - Beaded obverse/toothed reverse Mule - Not proof R9 1953 B+b BP1953A 1+B F245 Circulation issue N 1953 C+a BP1953L - - Matt proof sold in April 1985 R9 1953 C+b BP1953P 1+B F246 Bronze proof R5 1953 C+b - 1+B - Matt proof (for photographic purposes) R9 1953 B+a BP1953M 1+A F244 From the V.I.P.proof set (Mule) R9 1953 B+x BP1953N - - Circulation obverse; toothless reverse PU 1953 C*+b BP1953R - - Pattern obverse (122 beads)/toothed reverse Mule R9 The only coin I haven't seen pictured is the coin defined as BP1953L (Matt proof) sold in April 1985. The Proof coin in the VIP set is interesting because not only is it a mule with toothed reverse, it also has the obverse design used on circulation pennies (121 beads; A of ELIZABETH points to tooth) rather than that used in the standard proof sets (120 beads; A of ELIZABETH points to gap). The coin sold by Spink in Dec 2014 was BP1953R.

]Thanks Chris, I'll reattach Michael's letter for those that are interested.

Sorry - there's no edit to click on - must be doing something wrong

Don't know where to go to even click on edit !!!!!!!!!!!!!

How ? Edit the post, look to the right of the attachment and there is a 'delete' button. Then just upload another. EDIT: You need 'use full editor' to do it. What is full editor ?

How ?

Fortunately I have moved since then - Phew

Thanks Matt I should have thought of that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Too late now I guess. R

Gouby has not yet published it formally as C* but: When I bought my penny (with toothed reverse) at Croydon auctions in September 2000 I noticed that it had the 122 border beads, different from either the circulation or proof issues. I wrote to Michael Gouby to see if he had come across this variety as it wasn't mentioned in his book The British Bronze Penny 1860-1967. He checked his own stock and found that he had a similar coin that had featured in a Spink Numismatic Circular article in June 1986 (although he had not noticed that it was this "pattern" reverse with 122 beads. It was this coin that he sold to Trevor Legge whose coins were sold at Spink as mentioned above. After examination of his coin he agreed that it was an unrecorded die type and he said that he would be calling it C* when he next updated his book. However, that book has never been updated and so it has not been publicised, not even on his website. I will attach a copy of his reply to me confirming the C* classification.

Gouby has not yet published it formally as C* but: When I bought my penny (with toothed reverse) at Croydon auctions in September 2000 I noticed that it had the 122 border beads, different from either the circulation or proof issues. I wrote to Michael Gouby to see if he had come across this variety as it wasn't mentioned in his book The British Bronze Penny 1860-1967. He checked his own stock and found that he had a similar coin that had featured in a Spink Numismatic Circular article in June 1986 (although he had not noticed that it was this "pattern" reverse with 122 beads. It was this coin that he sold to Trevor Legge whose coins were sold at Spink as mentioned above. After examination of his coin he agreed that it was an unrecorded die type and he said that he would be calling it C* when he next updated his book. However, that book has never been updated and so it has not been publicised, not even on his website. I will attach a copy of his reply to me confirming the C* classification.

Do you have link to an image or listing? The search feature on the Spink site doesn't seem to work. Wait, never mind, see https://www.spink.com/files/catalogue/14007.pdf (p142). This seems to be BP 1953 L, not the seemingly more common F244. Here's the previous sale I was thinking of: http://www.londoncoins.co.uk/?page=Pastresults&auc=144&searchlot=386&searchtype=2 Some more discussion at http://www.predecimal.com/forum/topic/9390-1953-penny-mule-rob-bernie/ with what looks like allusions to the second ??? in my list. Here you go mate https://www.spink.com/lot-description.aspx?id=14007000929 - Damn at my bid of £ 2550 I thought I was going to win it Ah thanks - much better image. It really does look like a currency piece. That Spink coin is a very interesting piece - it's only the second recorded occurrence of a pattern obverse which Gouby now calls C* and has 122 border beads as opposed to the 121 on the currency coin of 1953 and 120 on the normal proof of 1953. I have a specimen which I sent to the Royal Mint for verification and they thought that it was an early strike, probably from 1952 which was never adopted.

Nice work Matt

184 it is - try this photo

I've always made it 184 - the same as a 1927 - I guess I'll have to count them again.................................................

It does seem to be in the right place but doesn't look substantial enough - but, given that the dot on the die will be incuse, maybe the hole filled up over time creating weaker specimens.

Are you sure you've been a good boy ?????

I consider myself told off - subject closed.

Does anyone know who "Elstree" is ? It seems strange that he/she is selling some coins that were purchased quite recently (Last year in one case) unless something unfortunate has happened. Some lovely pennies.

A few years ago someone put up an 1877 F90 narrow date on Ebay, labelling it as such, but starting it at 99p as he didn't know it was rare. I contacted him out of selfish reasons, as I wanted to bid on it and I knew that some people would offer him a few hundred quid for a quick sale. I told him it was worth at least £3k and ended up winning it but it cost me a small fortune !!!

I'm told it's good exercise for the optic muscles.......................

What coin did you count 187 rim denticles on? I've counted the rim denticles on a couple of Freeman C/Gouby d pennies and get 184. Sorry - my typo. I should have said reverse B. Freeman reverse B (Gouby reverse has 187 teeth. Gouby reverse c (not listed by Freeman) has 181 teeth. Gouby reverse d (Freeman C) has 184 teeth. Hope this clarifies.

I've asked them if they are going online and they always say they have no plans to, so there's no bidding online thro the saleroom. I'm not sure whether you can even leave commission bids thro the saleroom. You can leave postal bids with LCA or get them to telephone you but you can't follow the auctions online. They're losing out on a huge audience but maybe the costs are prohibitive ?

I have it on good authority that these pennies are all fakes - best to stay at home and don't bid on them (please !)

Right, doing my best Mystic Meg impression I can see a tall dark short-sighted stranger paying £750 for the F8 mule and £200 for that vile F41.