seuk

Glad to see that my variation system is useful Its indeed a group J - with the typical walrus Q - and made of brass. Due to the shilling being holed I guess are fair price is somewhere in the area of £1 to £5

The numbers etc. are my own invention (fx A701r is A = Group A, 7 = 1817, 01 die number, r = reverse). To my knowledge no one has published any kind of die study of these counterfeits. How many shilling do you have? ...or how many dies do you think exist?

Shilling groups more or less ready: http://www.steppeulvene.com/index.shilling_group_a.html

Due to the nature of counterfeits its rarely possible to identify the coiners responsible for individual coins. An exception: http://www.predecimal.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6170&st=0&p=56938&fromsearch=1entry56938 Perhaps further studies may reveal other connections as such.

And the obverse groups http://www.steppeulvene.com/index.shilling_groups_obverse.html

Seuk should structure it all up and get it into a book. Web sites are OK, but they are transient and can be lost, damaged or whatever over time, especially if you don't pay your internet/domain name subscriptions. A book on the other hand will end up in the British Library and is there for future generations to read. Get writing as well as webbing!! Well right now its all at the very beginning - perhaps some day there will be material for a book. ...having a difficult time with the obverse dies (of the shilling) they are really quite complicated.

About a year+ ~ but I'm only beginning to gather the information in order to make the pages. I'm starting out with the shilling as its the most common/complicated coin in the series and hence a possible key to the other coins. I do plan to have pictures of genuine coin (from my white cabinet ) as I said the pages are incomplete and will likely have to be reworked several times.

Mostly you'll spot the fakes right away being of brass/copper/pewter colour - and those which are silvered are very rarely with complete silvering. The garnish is one of the ways to separate the various types of counterfeits not really to separate counterfeits from genuine as some counterfeits are cast hence details being identical to the genuine coins. (I'm not interested in the cast counterfeits as they are mostly small time effords and probably impossible to separate the moulds used). The domain name is a fanpage which I did from a legendary danish psych band. I guess its possible to make a separate domain but don't know how and I'll think people will find the pages no matter what they are called. I think the name has some impact on search results but you'll be able to google it anyway. Right now its all very incomplete and needs lots of work - but the great thing about a home page is you can work when you got the time and upload what you have - doen't need to be a completely finished thing like an article for a magazine.

Just so you can get an idea how nerdy its going to be Well - starting up with two half finished pages... I'll use this thread to keep everybody informed on any progress http://www.steppeulvene.com/index.george_iii.html http://www.steppeulvene.com/index.shilling.html

an early date....possible gaming token

I'm sure there are undiscovered varieties nestling in the soil of every county. So one doesn't have to gather at least 2,000 coins before perhaps being lucky to discover an unknown die link...

Thanks all for info I do have a weakness for coins of almost identical design and long period of minting like the Short Cross and the Edward penny. But I guess there's little chance of new discoveries in these fields or am I wrong?

Bought the following as a contemporary counterfeit of Henry II - but I'm not sure if it isn't really a genuine coin? There's no trace of plating and to me it looks as low quality silver (weight 1.3gr). Due to double strike its a little difficult reading but as far I can see its: Obverse: HENRICVS REX Reverse: HENRI ON LV? The R seem to have a small tab at top which should be class 5a-5b and the regular S will make it 5b hence King John (spink 1351) As I'm not familiar with these coins I would appreciate any opinion.

The picture could be better but it doesn't look fake to me. There's a lot of fake 1818 and (more rarely) 1819 on ebay from time to time. Strangely I've yet to see 1817 and 1820. That is; of the type known to me - There may be other kinds of fakes around!

Miss Denmark...:

I have the coin packaged up at home ready to post back to the seller (I am in Australia until next weekend), he finally told me his address yesterday and has agreed a full refund, all going through eBay Resolution Centre. He claims he has had his own experts examine it and found nothing wrong, but if true they can only have been judging from the photos. I havent done this before and have a question - he isnt ging to refund me until he gets his coin back, what recourse do I have if he simply doesnt repay me after that, does anyone know? Does eBay step in? Thanks for any advice! Also, I have no idea how to check whether it's silver, does anyone know? I used to collect postage stamps as a kid. Some of the Edward VII (and others probably, but you will have to consul a catalogue) were printed on chalk paper. If you rub such a stamp with a silver coin it will leave a pencil-like mark. Not good for the postage stamp though

I feel this topic requires a separate section like the 'Confirmed unlisted varities' section. We have at least 3 threads on chinese George III forgeries: http://www.predecimal.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6086&st=0&p=55626&fromsearch=1entry55626 + http://www.predecimal.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6260&st=0&p=57677&fromsearch=1entry57677 + http://www.predecimal.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6172&st=0&p=56997&fromsearch=1entry56997 - and there's probably a lot more similar posts on the forum.

Most contemporary counterfeits of William IV which I've seen are cast and made of some sort of dark grey metal (lead/zinc/tin/pewter) though I have a copy cast in brass also. They are of low weight from 9.2 to 10.5 gr.

I reported this one some time ago (and I'm sure others did as well). Its actually stamped with an R (Replica) on the reverse! I also wrote the seller who didn't react. Fortunately he didn't used private listings so I just had to make a small bid in order to inform the winner: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230726136899?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 It will be interesting to see if a clear case like this will make ebay react in the future.

Looks like another totally crappy ebay decision! I guess we'll be seeing more 'patterns' or 'I don't know anything about coins' on ebay in the future - after a possible replica stamp has been removed to comply with ebay rules. And sad news for collectors of US contemporary counterfeits and for the genuine collectors of replica coins! What counts as a 'replica', I wonder? A 1933 penny is obviously a replica, but no-one is going to be fooled by a listing claiming it to be genuine. I'd mourn the loss of those good fakes, as Peter says. I can only assume that an 18th Century evasion halfpenny won't count, as they are 1) collected in their own right (as are seuk's favourite series from 1816) and 2) who will rule that a genuinely 250-year-old forged or evasion coin is a "replica"? If the ruling is that items marked COPY aren't allowed, will we then see such items listed as genuine?? I come back to the crucial question - who will rule? As I read it; they will close the replica & reproduction sections. If coins are listed in other sections and openly described as replicas/copies/etc. the listing will be ended if reported or discovered(?) by ebay. It will be interesting to see if there's any new action from ebay with regard to the real problem of fakes sold as genuine coins. At the present moment ebay don't seem to react on fake reports likely because they don't have any expertice in the field. So will they acquire the necessary expertice? Or start to cancel anything reported or just keep ignoring reports as usual? Only US contemporary counterfeits are mentioned - this can hardly include evasions or foreign coins whichs at some point have circulated in the US. However there may be a risk that the new policy will be exported to the other ebay branches and then all contemporary counterfeits could end up being banned!

Looks like another totally crappy ebay decision! I guess we'll be seeing more 'patterns' or 'I don't know anything about coins' on ebay in the future - after a possible replica stamp has been removed to comply with ebay rules. And sad news for collectors of US contemporary counterfeits and for the genuine collectors of replica coins!

Sir John Craig: The Mint http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170766929839?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 Graham P. Dyer & Peter P. Gaspar: A new history of the royal mint (Cambridge 1992) I've not read any of them but from description both looks very interesting

Absolutely no expert - but I would use 'The token book' by Paul and Bente R Withers (Galata 2010) and check up on ended auctions on ebay (right now there are 230 results for 17th cent tokens): http://www.ebay.co.uk/csc/Tokens-/58534/i.html?LH_Complete=1&rt=nc&Period=17th%2520Century&_adv=1&_dmd=1&_dmpt=UK_Coins_Tokens_RL&_fln=1&_in_kw=1&_ipg=50&_oexkw=&_okw=&_sop=12&_ssov=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m1539&_udhi=&_udlo=