Peckris

I wouldn't class those as anything more significant than bag marks, which on some more modern UNC coins look far worse without affecting the technical grade. Remember that's a sixpence shown at around 10 times real size. I think the obverse is a strong strike, which counts in its favour, especially considering there are UNC Edwards of different dates that have less hair detail than that. And don't forget how large the picture has been 'blown up' which ALWAYS affects how it appears. Grading, as you've seen from this thread Nick, is always a highly subjective art. As for your coin, it's a gorgeous example of an Edward sixpence and anyone who says they wouldn't give it space in their own collection is being economical with the truth. Whether you define it as AUNC or UNC makes little difference in the end. Appearance is everything. There are precious few bag marks on that coin. As for the rim nicks - yes, there's clearly one on the reverse at 6 o'clock, but the others I'm not convinced about, particularly when you appreciate just how small the coin really is in relation to the picture. You don't get perfect edges on business strikes, and some of what you are calling rim nicks, don't look like 'cuts' or 'dents' to me, just the way the rim is slightly folded in places. And maybe not even visible at normal size. If we are going to judge everything on super-size enlargements, then we might as well all throw our non-proof coins into the trash. Debbie - there are many factors to take into account. Not the least of which is that small coins are less collected and popular than large coins, precisely because their detail is much harder to make out without using a glass. However, if you used the same glass where it wasn't needed - e.g. on crowns or pennies - you would soon see a plethora of apparent horror stories, which when you see the coin at normal size would NOT be apparent. But, you still need that glass to see if there is wear on Edward's hair and beard : as you do also on his larger coins, him being one of the harder monarchs to see hair wear on. And the principle is also true that grading should be consistent across denominations; a fairer comparison in terms of picture would be one that 'blows up' that sixpence to the size of a real life halfcrown. The other factor to take into account is that detail on small fine parts of the design (e.g. lion faces) is almost non-existent on UNC examples of a small coin, where on a large coin you would use those very parts to judge the first signs of wear. So size does matter when you look at the grade of a small coin, as the die itself contains less detail than the same design on larger denominations.

Yes, that's at least EF (minimal wear) and it has a very nice 'pewter' toning. Good coin!

However, unless everybody else flushes their caches - you'll be the only one that sees the change. I've just flushed mine and see that your avatar is now cyan coloured rather the purple/blue it was before. I think this is a forum s/w issue. Every time a user uploads a new avatar, a unique filename should be generated so that all browsers will download the new image. verdigris coloured, please I am sorry Peck, but I have to inform you that having looked at your Avatar, I must conclude from it's tone, and it's colour, it is not covered in Verdigris but it is a modern Fake. Noooooooooooooooo. oh well, don't tell anyone, especially not seuk. It will be our little secret.

..and it's repeated further down also But apparently it's a 'Farting', a very rare coin indeed ... Not as scarce as burpennies

I totally agree. I'd much rather have a coin with even patina than with patchy uneven lustre. Take this 1862 penny (ignore the horrible scan - it looks great in hand; dark glistening virtually prooflike fields and such sharp edges I've sometimes wondered if ...) : it would value less than a BU example which I can kind of understand, but it would even fetch less than one with patchy lustre, which is just stupid. Just how I like a coin to look, and a good enough scan to see the sharpness of hair and fingers! I absolutely could not collect anything different. That's not to say I wouldn't buy different...I just wouldn't look at them and sail away to faraway thoughts and imaginings, as I often do with the coins I love! Thanks! You won't believe it, but I got that penny in the mid-1990s from the Midland Fair ... from a dealer who clearly didn't appreciate it : it was in his £1 box.

That's just the way the reverse was designed. I have an 1887 wreath reverse 6d in EF - the top veins are gone, the rounded parts of the crown are flat, the oak leaves are flattening, etc etc, but the veins on the two lower left leaves are still intact. Overall, the wear on that coin is obvious. There's no apparent wear at all on this one. None.

However, unless everybody else flushes their caches - you'll be the only one that sees the change. I've just flushed mine and see that your avatar is now cyan coloured rather the purple/blue it was before. I think this is a forum s/w issue. Every time a user uploads a new avatar, a unique filename should be generated so that all browsers will download the new image. verdigris coloured, please

..and it's repeated further down also

I didn't no, and I still don't. Please tell me which leaf(ves) I should be looking at. Surptising.....Ok, well top leaves on the left have veins, follow those leaves down and the veins are disspearing which would then indicate wear. Right hand side, in the middle of the coin, middle leave are worn. Mayybe i'm just imagining it, but looks clear enough to me. The first points of wear on that reverse are not only the leaves, but the jewels and raised parts on the crown, and the letters. There aren't complete leaf veins on that design - it looks and feels UNC to me. Full lustre.

That's as clear an UNC as I've seen in that series, and with a delicious golden toning too. Very very nice! That's only Fair (obverse) but the reverse is certainly Fine. So I'd say Fair/Fine. (Is this schoopid thing playing up today? Won't let me reply to posts with images in. )

I totally agree. I'd much rather have a coin with even patina than with patchy uneven lustre. Take this 1862 penny (ignore the horrible scan - it looks great in hand; dark glistening virtually prooflike fields and such sharp edges I've sometimes wondered if ...) : it would value less than a BU example which I can kind of understand, but it would even fetch less than one with patchy lustre, which is just stupid.

Thanks Garry. Apart from the first page, that first one has come out fine. (But the site I had to get it from ... GAAAAAH! Don't the stupid people who create those 'captchas' understand that a robot can't read ANYTHING in a picture? On the other hand, if they put a wavy line through the characters, then humans can't read it either!! What a bunch of total pillocks!)

Nice idea, but it hadn't loaded even after 15 minutes so I gave up. Thanks anyway Garry. I think the idea is you are meant to right click and "save link as". comes down a lot faster. Yes, but you can't save a pdf until it's fully loaded in your browser.

Fascinating and rather ghostly in an almost sinister way! Interesting that it picked up her features but didn't pick up the top of her head in the equally empty field area to the top left of the trident.

Nice idea, but it hadn't loaded even after 15 minutes so I gave up. Thanks anyway Garry.

Well done. I haven't heard anything from them, so I'm guessing I was unsuccessful. Pity as I left quite a few bids. You are quite right, my coins arrived this morning. However, I only won one lot, despite leaving a number of bids well over estimate. However, I'm undertaking a re-look at all my 20thC material and am upgrading where necessary, so the 1950 and 51 pennies that I picked up have nicely ungraded the GVF ones I already had. I'm not too disappointed, although I would have liked to fill some of the gaps in my early 18thC silver. Oh well, Lockdales at the weekend I guess and online bidding, which I quite like. Do you have the link please? Peckris, http://www.lockdales.com/ plus http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues?clientUrlName=lockdales Hope you get something you want, but don't outbid me!!! Thanks Dave - there's not very much to tempt me there. I won't be challenging your bids!

It all depends how you grade. Some people downgrade weak strikes, but I would find that confusing - better IMO to mention the weakness in the grade, e.g. UNC weak strike on shield Unless of course all (or virtually all) the coins of a particular denomination struck in a particular year are weak (1920 pennies spring to mind). Agreed, to both. Weak strikes will command lower prices, just as early strikes attract a premium. Unless ALL or MOST such coins are weak (in addition to 1920 pennies, there are the reverses of 1907 pennies, the obverses of 1919H pennies, the reverses of 1917 sixpences, the reverses of 1895YH farthings, etc etc).

I've maybe seen that before, but what a gem! Is that yours Derek? No, it was sold on e-bay a few years back, I did bid for it but unsurprisingly it went out of reach. Another one which got away was a 1940 penny re-cut with a swastika instead of the union jack. Someone with a time viewer that could look 70 years ahead.

Well done. I haven't heard anything from them, so I'm guessing I was unsuccessful. Pity as I left quite a few bids. You are quite right, my coins arrived this morning. However, I only won one lot, despite leaving a number of bids well over estimate. However, I'm undertaking a re-look at all my 20thC material and am upgrading where necessary, so the 1950 and 51 pennies that I picked up have nicely ungraded the GVF ones I already had. I'm not too disappointed, although I would have liked to fill some of the gaps in my early 18thC silver. Oh well, Lockdales at the weekend I guess and online bidding, which I quite like. Do you have the link please?

Gotcha!

I've maybe seen that before, but what a gem! Is that yours Derek?

Always remembering that die wear and coin wear can be hard to separate especially for beginners. Small things like the lion faces are often the first places to show wear on both the die and the coin. If the reverse has full lustre and displays no rubbing or wear anywhere else, but the lions' faces are flat without losing lustre - then it's die wear and can be graded Unc (if the die wear is obvious to the naked eye and affects much more than tiny lion faces, then you would mention it in the grading - UNC Weak strike) You've misunderstood - GEF is better than EF. Derek was working downwards - i.e. if there's a little wear it's GEF, more and it's EF. But yes, buy the book!

A classic case of e-bay grading I fear...

an olive oil bath should get it back to how it used to look Nah, I quite like the new verdigris look I thought it had been At'd and slabbed as a VF50BL(ue). At'd ??

I was under the distinct impression that we had a takernment, not a givernment