Peckris

Yes, that looks cupro-nickel. Whereas your original post looks definitely silver.

It looks as though the coin was sliced into two, so that wonderful engraving on the backside of the obverse could be done.

While I acknowledge the concerns, what the archaeologist says about disturbed material is disingenuous nonsense. I used to go on a lot of archaeological digs, and I remember well that we 'coinies' were allowed to raid the 'spoil tip' (i.e. excavated and dumped soil) for any coins, as they would no longer be 'in situ' and therefore of no value to the archaeologist. I found a good silver denarius of Julia Domna in this way, and after cleaning it came up between VF and EF. The fact of the matter is this : if the place where the detectorist made a find wasn't a known archaeological site, then it wouldn't have been on their radar in the first place. Therefore the museums should be grateful that someone has pinpointed an area for fruitful further excavation. If the find was Roman, there's almost too many unexcavated sites to worry about. The only time a detectorist would be an absolute menace is if they haunted an actual ongoing dig, e.g. at night.

These don't tend to vary greatly over the years, as token collecting is a minority interest field, like Maundy, island coinages, medallions, etc. The standard work was by Dalton & Hamer, though quite a long time ago. Someone in this forum did a pdf download of D&H very recently, though I can't remember precisely which thread it was in. You could try a search or alternatively the person who uploaded it might drop by and remind us. The other way is to try a Google search and see if you can find any online dealer selling examples of the tokens you have. Having got the price for one or two, a comparative check in an old reference book would allow you to work out prices for the remainder. Then there's the prices you paid yourself - if not too long ago (within the last 15 years perhaps), they wouldn't be out of date hardly. Condition is everything. If yours are worn or no better than Fine, they wouldn't fetch a great deal unless rare. If in VF or better the price goes up considerably. Do you have any pictures you can show us?

As a Mac user myself, I spent a few years in the 90s building a very customised series of interlinked and related FileMaker apps which have served me well over the years. However, you may not use FM yourself, and since the apps were to accommodate my own collection, my dealing (For Sale, Sold, Customers, Invoices, etc), and sundry other uses, you'd find them far too esoteric for your own uses. However, just to give an indication from the database(s) used for my own collection, and ignoring the comparative values since the 1960s which is a sideline interest of mine, this is the main layouts and data fields I've set up : LAYOUTS : Data entry (single page, all fields) Pictures Values Calculator (to calculate new values from Spink using different algorithms) Spink input Sets Locations Buying Print list Print for Spink data entry Database log (history of changes I've made over time) Tutorial (reminder to myself of how to operate the database) FIELDS : Denomination Reign Date Variety Condition 1/2/3 (1 = A, N, G 2 = BU, UNC, EF, VF, F, VG 3 = /BU, /UNC, /EF ... etc) Price paid Date acquired Where acquired Date sold Comments Composition Proof Latest value Further (additional to Condition - e.g. colouration, dents, nicks, scratches, patina, toning) Location Values (repeating field) Seaby Unc Seaby EF Seaby VF Seaby F Coin ID (the reason you can't see a field for Picture is that each record on the database links via Coin ID to its corresponding picture on a separate database, to keep the size of the main database modest. You could of course add pictures to your main spreadsheet / database, but remember it will become pretty damn big!) I hope that gives you some guidance as to the range of data and data views you might find useful. I'm pretty sure the above is replicable in Bento, which has become more sophisticated over time. Alternatively, if you have an iPhone or iPad, there are versions of FileMaker for them which are much cheaper than the full Mac versions (e.g. £20 instead of £200, though there is less functionality).

A few cents then - it looks like the value has been rubbed off in order to create a blank area for the engraving. Nice coin with an interesting story :-)

It's S456 - a Julius Caesar denarius, elephant obverse, and reverse priestly emblems. Spinks also give a RRC number 443/1. This refers to Crawford's Roman Republican Coinage. The value in F would be between £75 and £100. Here's mine (different design): Thanks Peck, I will be selling all my Roman coins I think, need to fund some very expensive purchases! Any reason to think my coin is not genuine? Were these forged a lot do you know? I can't see anything 'wrong' about it, but I'm not an expert on Roman forgeries. The colour is a little odd (yellowish) for silver but that may simply be the photo. It should be ok, but a wider opinion would be useful.

Do you have the size? All I can say is it's French, Louis XVIII, possibly a franc? And for its date, probably solid silver. More than that I can't say.

Note also that Ron Stafford has identified the earlier obverse on 1923 florins even before Davies does.

I would definitely say - as a recent owner - that Davies is the defining work from 1816. You can ignore the prices but still use them to judge relative rarity. Dave Groom's book is very good for the 20th Century, but you'd have a big gap before that. ESC is best for early milled - from 1816 it is completely superseded. If your period is 1816 - 1936 then I'd start with Davies. And add Groom for 1902 to 1936. You need not really bother with ESC after 1816 if you have the others. Rotographic is pretty good for prices. Spink isn't bad but a bit optimistic for certain modern issues (a better guide to prices is their Numismatic Circular but what's in there is only a tiny selection). Tony Clayton is out of date, isn't he? The Coin Yearbook is absolutely hopeless for varieties, but not too bad on prices. BCMV I've always found is very unrealistically low on prices, even more in the eBay era - but it's a few years since I've seen a copy (it's also hopeless for varieties). You pays your money ... (All guides are just that - a guide to prices, an average.)

Which is still not BU as the seller is stating, even if i'm being harsh at EF,we could go AUNC and its still not BU, so again, i rest My case that its not BU If you'd originally said "AUNC" instead of "EF" I would never have bothered to argue the point. There's a big big difference.

It's S456 - a Julius Caesar denarius, elephant obverse, and reverse priestly emblems. Spinks also give a RRC number 443/1. This refers to Crawford's Roman Republican Coinage. The value in F would be between £75 and £100. Here's mine (different design):

This is sometimes true, but it doesn't necessarily follow. Proofs are done on polished specially prepared blanks, double struck, using dies that have been similarly polished. Many such dies are then used for business strikes. If impaired, there would be no way to distinguish them, unless the "proof" still has a razor sharp rim edge, but even this cannot be ruled as conclusive. Remember a proof is not a separate design or issue as such, it is a method or standard of striking which may use exactly the same dies as the normal issues.

All editions are an improvement on the previous ones and 1992 is the last printed, but anything in the 1971 would still be valid. Alan Rayner died a few years ago, so there will be no 6th edition. Like all reference material, it has omissions and many rarity values are demonstrably incorrect, but it is still a valuable addition to the library, listing as it does a reasonably comprehensive summary of the milled silver coins. It doesn't go into as much detail as Davies, but covers a longer period. Thank you Rob. I just got this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310369811829?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 £7 isnt a lot for educational paperwork. Must go look up Davies. Doh ! duh ! was I blonde the last time you saw me. That's actually the 1974 edition - same as the one I've got. It's a useful book especially for the early milled series (Davies is better from 1816), and is virtually the defining work for pre-19th Century milled silver. Though as Rob says, such books are always going out of date - however it's a great learning tool, and the rarities it lists are all genuinely rare even though more have been discovered since.

PUBLIC STATEMENT : "The attached link is to a pdf that contains scans of two Coin Monthly articles by Ron Stafford, from the issues of that periodical dated FEBRUARY 1979, and 28 DEC-10 JAN 1980. I hereby acknowledge the intellectual ownership in these articles of Ron Stafford, and the publication copyright which at the time was held by The Numismatic Publishing Company, Essex which has since ceased to exist. The scans were done and the uploads made, purely for the interest of members of the predecimal.com forum. This material must not be copied except for the private use of said members, nor may it be used by anyone for commercial purposes, or disseminated any more widely than the predecimal.com website. Efforts have been made to trace the current copyright owners of this material but these have been unsuccessful. If the current copyright owners make representations that this scanned upload is a breach of copyright, the uploaded file will be taken down without delay or prejudice." http://www.mediafire.com/file/k0ckgf6tybktc39/Ron Stafford florins survey.pdf Note : the first long article contains a survey of 20,000 florins made by Ron Stafford during 1978, and the second short article is a follow-up survey in 1979.

Do you have any photos Garry? Are you getting frisky with me !, I like it , erm no I don't. I could do later but I can't gaurantee the quality. Coins that are buried for years and years often acquire this slightly glossy all-over green patina. It's very much like verdigris but isn't an 'attack' as such, as the green coating is very very hard and won't cause further damage to the coin. For the record, I found quite a few George V pennies (WW1 period) in this state in the late 60s - most of them in what would have been very high grade (still enough detail to show that quite clearly). It may be something unique to bronze?

You rest your case, marked "I had this as EF", where exactly? LOL

........me neither ...... what a beaut that coin fair is eh? I miss it - nothing like it in the SW

modern photography eh i took some pics of my 1924 tanner for another thread here, the pic of the reverse looked stunning, the obverse less so, i didnt post the pics becsause of the way the obverse photographed. i dont think the difference between the 2 pics was as different as the coin in this thread, true to say in the hand my coin is okay. but my tanner is gef. Its true to say that the pics are 4 times life size.......but thats true for both the reverse and the obverse pics. Peckris is right in my opinion the reverse is a good grade higher than the obverse, is this coin, despite the obverse, and what the camera may have done to it.....BU...????? Probably not. It might qualify as a GEF/UNC but deffo not BU

and can look forward to your wife ME spending it Watch out Garry - she's reading this over your shoulder she's behind me asleep so i'm safe for now How long you been married Garry? Women never sleep! Their eyes may close but don't be fooled...

Stop prevaricating oh green one and scan away, I would like to read them also Mañana look up ! no thanks pigeons do things in your eyes, but yeah tomorrow is another day. To the Latins, it's always "tomorrow", especially if the missus needs a job doing my wife has italian blood so I am buggered, she likes a fight and i like peace. Garden or mushy? (© The Two Ronnies, 1975)

and can look forward to your wife ME spending it Watch out Garry - she's reading this over your shoulder

Stop prevaricating oh green one and scan away, I would like to read them also Mañana look up ! no thanks pigeons do things in your eyes, but yeah tomorrow is another day. To the Latins, it's always "tomorrow", especially if the missus needs a job doing