Peckris

I'm with Peter on this - ok, old mad George may not have been the best subject, but there is something beautifully balanced about portrait. I do like the Vicky Gothic portrait but it comes in a little behind this.

Even slimmer if all 60 million of us buys a ticket! That's odds of ... um... er... [launches Calculator]... um... 600,000 to 1? (I was never any good at maths ) I like those odds! I am feeling lucky You know what the sad thing is?... Forget houses, cars and helping family, I am thinking of all the lovely coins my winnings will buy me ...which will mysteriously double or triple in price once they see you and your wad coming

Too bl00dy right I would, if I needed £4443.43 in a hurry!

I agree with the idea for a separate sub-forum for fakes. I rarely use Search (such a hit and miss affair) but a separate category would put them all in one place, which as you say would be a boon. Pictures and identifying features would be a must, needless to say. We already have one scott! It's the sub-sub-forum in this sub-forum...

I would rate it EF but you're right about the general ugliness. Someone paid way too much IMO.

Wow, you don't think it could be an actual silver medal awarded to someone or other?

Yes, it appears to be a contemporary forgery which would interest Seuk - it just looks so wrong on so many counts, that it is unlikely to be a Chinese fake. I think I can see copper patches beginning to show through? I've sent the seller a message saying it's likely to be a forgery, and will be interested to see his reply. P.S. - do bear in mind that the 'kosher' example is slightly angled which would distort immediate comparisons; that doesn't affect my verdict that it is most probably a wrong 'un!

Even slimmer if all 60 million of us buys a ticket! That's odds of ... um... er... [launches Calculator]... um... 600,000 to 1? (I was never any good at maths )

Their prices have always been a huge joke! I can't believe they sell much stuff, and yet they must - they're still in business (unless the coin business is a front for something else? [Any lawyers reading this, that was a joke ] ) I'd be more than happy to get £245 for my VF 1696 Crown. £350 in Fine, what on earth do they charge for rarities? Oh, that's right, they don't deal in rarities at all

"HAPPY BIDDING!" he says at the end. It's now standing at the exorbitant total of £3.01 - I wouldn't be happy even at that price We still have pay phones down here? My God, we're living up to our country bumpkin caricature! Mind you, I can sympathise - my mobile is Orange and I couldn't get a signal anywhere in my home. Now they've teamed up with T Mobile, if I wait a minute or so, suddenly I get bars appear, then dial manically before they disappear.

It must be so frustrating for you as ex police to see these things going on John! It is blatant that this person knows what he is doing. If more than one person told me I had a fake listed I would cancel the auction right away. I just had a reply from him saying he was "leaving it up to his nephew and the highest bidder to take it to the Royal Mint for identification"...???? On a lighter note, he also said "he has had some abuse" about it, so thats nice                        I got this as a reply                        Dear phpies, Please don't bid on the coin I am waiting a descision from my nephew who found the coin on his building site. He takes his metal Detector with him on every site he works because his friend discovered a small hoard of Gold Coins. I ask you not to bid as I am proposing to take the listing off because I have been unindated with messages that the coin is a Chinese copy therefore to be sure I am sending the Coin to the Royal Mint to have it checked out - dullahan78 Reply in your email program or through My Messages From: phpies To: dullahan78 Subject: Details about the item: phpies sent a message about 1860 Victorian Copper halfpenny #180937503486 Sent Date: 26-Jul-12 22:11:38 BST Dear dullahan78, Hi I'm interested in bidding on th 1860 halfpenny. You stated that this is a metal detector find but the coin is in exceptional condition. Has it been cleaned in any way Regds Colin - phpies                    1860 Victorian Copper halfpenny Item Id: 18093750348                Really? I thought it was dated 1860

I'm a bit confused - are you saying that a Georgian forgery has itself been faked in China and passed off as a genuine item? I'm assuming you haven't started collecting modern Chinese fakes! Its a standard fake of a genuine coin - All fakes of George III (silver) is of interest to me. Seems the model for the chinese fakes were a 1818 coin as both the 1819 and 1820 counterfeits are incorrect. Nope, I'm still confused! I don't know what you mean about '1819 and 1829 counterfeits are incorrect'? However, if you've extended your interest to Chinese fakes, then it's your business of course, but I'd advise caution... Well the thread is about the modern Chinese fakes and how to spot them. I don't find them very interesting in themselves (unlike contemporary counterfeits) but its a good idea to know what to look for when buying from ebay or other web sources. So far we have high quality 1818 fakes and low quality ditto plus 1819+1820 (Spink mentions 1817 as well but I've yet to see one). Looking at the bottom row examples of the Chinese fakes from the year 1818 to 1820 you will see that the figures 1 and 8 are basically of same design as on a genuine coin. (1 being a little thinner on 1819/20 + The 8 on the fake 1820 is a somewhat damaged). But on the fake 1819 halfcrown the 9 is simply a differnt design being more narrow than on a genuine coin (also the year are misplaced on the 1819 fake). Same with the 1820 halfcrown where both 2 and 0 are different from the genuine thing. I'll leave it your obvious expertise! Mind you, the 1820 fake is very very easy to spot, the date being incuse.

It's still there, so I've sent him a polite message too.

I know, I just couldn't resist

Welcome to the forums Svenska That's a nice example. Good purchase. But, are you sure it's an adjustment and not a die flaw? Just a thought. Thanks for the comments - I think Rob is entirely correct - It was only in the London Coins catalogue description the dot was referred to as an alignment spot. It must be more likely to be a die flaw. Ah, looking at the timings, I see Rob and I overlapped, so I never saw his post until now!

I'm a bit confused - are you saying that a Georgian forgery has itself been faked in China and passed off as a genuine item? I'm assuming you haven't started collecting modern Chinese fakes! Its a standard fake of a genuine coin - All fakes of George III (silver) is of interest to me. Seems the model for the chinese fakes were a 1818 coin as both the 1819 and 1820 counterfeits are incorrect. Nope, I'm still confused! I don't know what you mean about '1819 and 1829 counterfeits are incorrect'? However, if you've extended your interest to Chinese fakes, then it's your business of course, but I'd advise caution...

Don't believe everything they tell you. I phoned FL last year about my low cost endowment (paid up halfway through term). They told me "About 9k". I asked if this included final bonus and was told that would bring it just short of £10k. Now I'm told they're sending me a cheque for £13k. And the economy is even worse than this time last year! £3k would be a nice out on the town Peck.I have to rely on Tesco vouchers. Or a set of UNC Ed VII silver, lunch at The Ivy, admission to the Olympic 100 metres final, and the cab fare home! Not to mention only Tesco Finest from then on...

I'm a bit confused - are you saying that a Georgian forgery has itself been faked in China and passed off as a genuine item? I'm assuming you haven't started collecting modern Chinese fakes!

Welcome to the forums Svenska That's a nice example. Good purchase. But, are you sure it's an adjustment and not a die flaw? Just a thought.

Yes, if you can get to a fair, you achieve several objectives - meet and get to know different dealers (and they get to know you), see a good selection of coins, get good advice, and probably pick up a few bargains too. I should say so - £810 will get you a 1902 LT proof Therein lies both the problem and the advantage. In middle grades you are spoilt for choice about the problem but can usually pick up a cheap example of most things. Obviously, in most cases it will just be wear but in this case it was verd too. If not happy with a problem, leave the coin and move on. It's always better to buy something where you wouldn't have any intention of upgrading. Do that a few times and magically you find you have enough for a coin that's a grade up on what you intended to spend originally. Buying middle grade coins can actually be quite rewarding but what you MUST do, is ensure you buy problem free coins - no edge knocks, good patina, uncleaned etc. etc. That way, the coins will be easy to sell on, and who knows you might like a coin so much that you decide to keep it long term. I agree. Middle grades can often be good value. And a GVF with lovely tone and no flaws beats an EF or GEF with bits of patchy lustre and uneven tone, IMO. I once had a superb GVF 1902 penny with even dark tone and wonderful hair detail. I wish I'd kept it even though I now have a BU.

Don't believe everything they tell you. I phoned FL last year about my low cost endowment (paid up halfway through term). They told me "About 9k". I asked if this included final bonus and was told that would bring it just short of £10k. Now I'm told they're sending me a cheque for £13k. And the economy is even worse than this time last year!

Thanks, that is very helpful Peck. I have been dismissing coins that I otherwise really like recently, because I thought anything green was verd! It is only since I read an article yesterday, about halting the damage, that I realised green spots are not always verd. I think the best thing for me to do, until I learn to tell the difference myself, is to check with you guys before parting with my money. I am glad I did with this coin now! I just hope you do not get bored with all my newb questions, as I am sure there will be many more! We wouldn't necessarily know from a picture whether it's V or staining. The best thing, if in doubt, is contact the seller and mention there's a green patch, and what is it?

That baffles me - considering that blanks are fed into the press by automated machinery, how could anyone deliberately align a sixpence with the dies?

I would say (judging from the picture) it's certainly VF for wear, but less if you calculate in the other flaws. There is very little wear on the legend which makes me think "VF", but I'd want to see the reverse before fully committing. Green is often verdigris, which is matt and rough in texture. Similar, but glossy and enduring, is the overall green you see when a penny has been buried in the ground for quite a time. This can be called a sort of patina and you will never remove it, but sometimes it adds to the character of a coin, though vastly reducing its value. Occasionally green patches can be caused by staining of one type or another.

While I agree with Rob - profits aren't immoral - I do think that when profits are put ahead of the public service being provided, then that leads to skewed ethics and therefore skewed practice. That's why the original Quaker banks were a success : they combined strong ethics with providing a service many people wanted - their profitability was a natural outcome. As for insurance, one glaring abuse of business ethics is UNUM Provident, who provided crritical illness and disability policies to employed people, then found every excuse in the book to avoid paying out on them. Their dubious code of ethics has transferred to their French subsidiary ATOS Healthcare, who are currently assessing every disabled person in this country for the DWP, and finding many of them 'fit for work'; a high % of these are overturned at appeal. So while profits per se aren't immoral, there's nothing communist or hippie-ish about wanting them to be the result of strong business ethics.