Peckris

RARE????

And that's the ONLY difference between them??

I don't want to get involved in what's becoming (for this forum, anyway) such a heated argument. I'd only point out in Dave's defence that if you were to poll the members of this forum (yes, we're self-selected, and ageing farts, but probably represent a good cross-section of serious collectors) you'd get a sizeable majority against slabs. Also, your examples are all of extremely rare proofs etc, and that's possibly not the most representative group of coins? After all, many owners of such might prefer to see them attributed and protected, especially as they are coins for which slabbing wouldn't particularly 'add value' being already rare and valuable. On that level I have a 'live and let live' attitude to slabbing, though I personally wouldn't entertain them. It's where perfectly common coins are slabbed and then valued many times their book value as a result - that's where slabs are an abuse, at least to my eyes. I wish there was a TPG system where you could get coins attributed and photographed, with the certificate and photo inside a thin slab, and the coin loose.

I bought 40 of the buggers and sold 1 to Declan. What is a Groom 1 and 2.I have a few others kicking about(about 40) and need to check these.My grandfather gave me a load of 1946 & 49 3d's from change.As a 10 year old lad I decided to corner the market.I got to about 40 before realising every single one minted was stashed in collectors hands so they weren't rare. worth about £5. I remember a few years back when the 1959S shilling suddenly went from less than £20 in BU to £75! I wondered if that was a misprint - anyone know if the 2012 Spink has brought it back down to realistic levels?

I've not seen ANY 1927 or 1937 proofs in slabs. http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p3984.m570.l1311&_nkw=1927+proof+set&_sacat=0&_from=R40 Not a slab in sight! I'd like to see them slab a 1927 proof set case! Quite! And you'd have to split the set up to slab the individual coins. Unless Vicky was talking specifically about the VIP versions of the 1927 and 1937 proofs? In which case, they are so rare that they hardly form a representative sample. (Searching London Coins for 1927 matte proofs doesn't bring up a single example).

Thank you Declan. That's very helpful. I hope you're talking about the books and not the 1959S shillings, Declan!

I've not seen ANY 1927 or 1937 proofs in slabs. http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p3984.m570.l1311&_nkw=1927+proof+set&_sacat=0&_from=R40 Not a slab in sight!

Don't count on your GCSE Maths - 10 and 11 are not equal!!!!

It's certainly a point of view, but not one I agree with myself, for the following reasons : You can't view the coin (carefully, wearing gloves) in the best light, or go in close with magnifier to look for varieties You can't photograph the coins properly Storage is an absolute b*gger Call me old-fashioned, but I can't see the attraction of slabs. People said CD-haters were clinging to vinyl in vain, but look what happened, vinyl refused to die.

I've got it! A woman scorned. Scary. It's like that film - Fatal Attraction. A Bunny Tooler

I use the vcoins search function which works pretty well, rather than by dealer or category. But I think only a few UK dealers are represented there and agree more would be good. I also find it strange when dealers use a website like a mailing list. Now when I collected milled coins I'd risk buying from a description in a mailing list. But with hammered coins I need a photo. OK, it takes time and I guess bandwidth. But I'm no longer prepared to buy sight unseen. For a start, I'm much more likely to pick up interesting details than most dealers will notice, but mostly because 'eye appeal' is an essential element in hammered coins. You can have two very similarly graded coins, but one might be much more appealing to me than the other for reasons that I'd find difficult to explain. As for people who have photos but don't post them or who just have thumbnails, well, I've tired of emailing dealers asking for pictures. Now if there aren't any or they are unclear I tend to just move on I'm afraid .. That's very true, Tom ~ or as a compromise they just have pics of their best coins, and nothing else. As far as on line dealers are concerned, good photography of their stock is pretty obviously essential for optimum take up. If you can't be there in person, as with a shop, then you need to view the item in other ways. I wish someone would tell the SW's biggest dealer Glenn Ogden from whom I've bought coins at fairs before. Now I'm restricted to buying online, I've had to rule him out just because he doesn't see fit to put up pictures. I took him up on this a while back and got a really rude email from his wife.

Probably worth a few bob....... Perhaps the Churchill Crown should be renamed the Churchill Seat? (AKA Blenheim Palace)

Perhaps we need a Hurricane Winnie, to see off some of those Churchill crowns. Though actually, judging from the last few days ..

At the risk of a few Boooos from the gallery: I am actually in favour of slabbing. It has its faults, but I think is an improvement, or at least a move in the right direction, on the state of buying/ selling and collecting pre-slabbing, and which we still see in the unslabbed market on the likes of Ebay where, as numerous posts have observed, grades are routinely overstated. I'm also in favour of melting down a lot of the dross which we see again and again. Actually, slabs pre-date eBay. And the standard of buying & selling was a whole lot better pre-eBay (I agree 100% with your comments about the 'Bay). To take a case in point - the auction house Warwick & Warwick was a fine institution in the 90s when I bought from there, but from the comments made here, it seems to have gone downhill fast. You could argue that slabs give some protection from the worst excesses of eBay, but knowledge acquired by the coin-buying public would give just as much, and would preserve standards across the numismatic board.

What a shame - after all, it is a rare item.

Actually, I did see it. It was presented as the latest cutting-edge technology, but I remember a documentary on exactly this subject about 20 years ago! However, as Declan has noticed, it's a good case of "Eats Shoots and Leaves"

Remember also that NGC's EF, is the American EF which is equivalent to a bit more than the English "about good".

You couldn't get away with that in an English-speaking nation.. (I once was behind a van inscribed B&D CLEANERS - I decided I wouldn't be hiring them!!) I ordered a 69 and got beanshoots I don't know if is the same now because this was 10 years ago, but the Chinese near the Star & Garter at the top of the High St in Wigston, Leicester did it properly. Whilst discussing what we wanted, my friend said he fancied a 69. The menu informed us that was Shrimp & Mushrooms. You couldn't make it up if you tried. But you could if you fried!!

Happy (late) birthday John!

There website is there but I can't browse any catagories. Is that the problem you are seeing? "There was an error in your search criteria. Please click back button on your browser and resubmit." That's what I get each time I click a link.

I would certainly be interested in VF early milled halfpennies for my type collection : Charles II, James II, William and Mary, William III, George I, especially. The commoner types would do for me.

Here's one of those 'clever' overlays : The top picture is the overlay, then there's the original two pictures for comparison. The overlay doesn't prove much. Tony's penny shows a slight difference in size or shape of the loops, but that could be as much to do with wear as anything else. I'm not sure you can draw any firm conclusions from that.

Hmm, possibly an illusion due to the knock on the upper loop of his 3? we need one of those clever overlays please David Actually, flicking back and forth between Tony's page and Declan's picture here, there seems to be a noticeable difference between the two 'normal' 3s. Declan's shows the usual one where the two loops of the 3 are roughly the same size, and the dividing point is about halfway. Tony's shows the dividing point lower down, almost closing off the bottom loop entirely, while the upper loop is quite 'open'.

LOL But yes, an interesting hobby, and a twist on the usual collecting themes.