argentumandcoins

They only did these in Gold/Silver and Bronze. 200 Gold, 1500 Silver and 2000 Bronze, then the dies were apparently destroyed under supervision according to the little booklet that came with it Proof, if ever it were needed, that there is a God! Incidently, how did you manage to acquire the status 'not a God, just a man'? Are you in? When you are rated as a god you have god-like powers (actually you can change your title to whatever you want on your account page). Am I in? As in, in? or as in, in the masons/continent (think about it) etc?

They only did these in Gold/Silver and Bronze. 200 Gold, 1500 Silver and 2000 Bronze, then the dies were apparently destroyed under supervision according to the little booklet that came with it Proof, if ever it were needed, that there is a God!

I did all right last week. I picked up the either/or coin I wanted in the Eginton trial pattern sixpence (lot 721), so left the second one alone. Plus I acquired a couple of others at reasonable prices. My bids were all in the milled section Rob, oh and a few lots in the literature. I only wanted one lot of books and came second. I'm no pervy Rob I do have spare copy of Mayfair volume 2 issue 20 if you are interested. It has been kept under the mattress with the white fivers. If you can open the pages without having to use a chisel I might be in the market

I did all right last week. I picked up the either/or coin I wanted in the Eginton trial pattern sixpence (lot 721), so left the second one alone. Plus I acquired a couple of others at reasonable prices. My bids were all in the milled section Rob, oh and a few lots in the literature. I only wanted one lot of books and came second. I got more silver medals than Englands penalty takers

I did all right last week. I picked up the either/or coin I wanted in the Eginton trial pattern sixpence (lot 721), so left the second one alone. Plus I acquired a couple of others at reasonable prices. My bids were all in the milled section Rob, oh and a few lots in the literature.

I managed to "win" 11 lots, 4 of the Cumberland mining tokens and a lower grade hammered Carlisle penny among them. If I can't sell them up here there is no hope! Prices were brutal as usual. I got trounced at DNW last week as well. I just wish once in a while I could be the only interested bidder on a couple of lots Anyway I'll pull my pants up now and go and put some savalon on the part that got ripped open during the bidding bloodbath................

Most of the time, but there are exceptions, and if a cross must be assumed to be deliberate which would help the accounting theory. My only difficulty with the accounting theory is I can't see what accounting purpose it would serve, unlike the marking of a pile of BoE notes that are bound together! I suppose that if done for accounting purposes you would expect to see multiple crosses too. The earliest I have seen a cross is on Edward VI fine coinage, which immediately post-dates the debased period and could be a hangover from this period. Could it be that crossed coins were those that failed the recoinage test in 1696? I've just made a quick check on those coins with a cross that I have weights for and the closest any came to full weight was a James I 3rd bust shilling at 5.87g with the next at 5.75g. The lightest was 5.39g. I also have an Elizabeth I shilling with a star mark at 5.92g. We also have to bear in mind that some marks could be graffiti and completely unrelated to the underlying reason for the majority of marks. At the recoinage, those coins of full weight were punched through the centre to signify they were of full weight (and therefore value) and could be used for transactions for a limited time. In the event of discovering a pierced coin was underweight, the person who tendered the coin was liable to make up the difference in value. Do we have any other weights for crossed coins which would back up this theory? i.e. does anyone have crossed coins that are full weight and if so how many? Marking the field makes the cross obvious, so one would assume that it was done as a means of identification. Yes, I speculated (above) that it may have been something to do with the Recoinage. I think it is the most convincing explanation. The trouble is that Lloyd Bennett has a pierced Aberystwyth shilling with the hole through the centre as stipulated in the decree which only weighs 5.75g. This was the first coin I looked at. The next four halfcrowns had a maximum weight of 14.71g, so the underwight theory probably doesn't hold much water. I didn't find any full weight centre-holed coins. It is just too easy to find coins that break any postulated theories. We are all p***ing in the wind. One thing that would help a theory re-the recoinage would be the total absence of any crossed coins from contemporary hoards that could be positively dated to before the recoinage. I don't think this is the sort of thing that gets reported though because it would need to encompass all hoards. I suppose a starting point would be the last 3 Tennants sales where a civil war hoard was offered. From 5 shillings and 6 halfcrowns bought by me/father there is not a single marked coin. If somebody has the time to trawl their archived catalogues there will be pictures of all lots. Although a relatively small hoard it would give a good indication?

It is Hus and his fat thumbs Single Malt and working in the small hours, that's my guess! Leave me out of this Stuart! Oh, sorry, you meant Hus I have my coin back thanks

Errr, it looks like frost? The £1 proof you stuck on the acq thread is frosted on the portrait and shield ne pas?

Either there's some determined shilling going on (suspicious bidding pattern, yes?), or else someone desperately wants it for the date. But I agree, it's a weird one. You wouldn't raise that for a regular EF halfpenny of that series, so your guess is as good as mine. Richard is not a shiller, so we can put that to bed. Is it lost on you that the date does not exist and does not turn up among forgeries? The price is high because it is contemporary, rare and in good condition for a series that is regularly very poorly produced. No mystery just simple supply and demand. As you see John, that's what I said!! But on that basis, a unique date of a "To Hanover" gaming token or faked spade guinea, should command a similar value. All we're saying is that it's a weirdly high price - albeit a unique date - for what is, at the end of the day, a forgery. Though I collect George III counterfeits I know next to nothing about the copper series. However some of those were produced in America, and if that's the case the price will probably be much higher than an English counterfeit. Your latest was sent today with 5 shillings included

At least you can still spend the cent though!

No problem for me Dave.

Either there's some determined shilling going on (suspicious bidding pattern, yes?), or else someone desperately wants it for the date. But I agree, it's a weird one. You wouldn't raise that for a regular EF halfpenny of that series, so your guess is as good as mine. Richard is not a shiller, so we can put that to bed. Is it lost on you that the date does not exist and does not turn up among forgeries? The price is high because it is contemporary, rare and in good condition for a series that is regularly very poorly produced. No mystery just simple supply and demand.

Just as you said "never seen before" I know the seller very well and was outbid by him on that lot at auction. It is a genuine sale and the coin will probably go across the pond, which is where 99% of the Georgian forgeries end up (colonoial Revolutionary period coinage anybody?) I have sold washers for £200-£300 before just because they are scarce dies, this one I aint seen before either buddy I would expect the 1781 to fetch a good price as well.

Yes, all from one collection Debbie. Sadly the gentleman died many years ago and his daughters (both elderly) have only now decided to sell on his exonumia collection. His coins went 25 years ago to Spink and boy do I wish I had had the chance of buying that collection! Most of the sales have/are going to the USA. I am in contact with one of the collectors (who has been collecting for many years) and will ask if he would like to correspond with you if you wish?

Not, unfortunately.

You can't price something that is unique, and all of these types are unique. If the subject matter was more appealing it could do £100+, I would guess yours would be in the £20-£50 region though. So are they all one off pieces? Yes, each being engraved by individuals. Its a nice piece and maybe worth hanging onto unless you are really desperate to sell. These engraved coins are finding their way into the market, but not quite popular just yet. Wasn't planning on selling it just came across it yesterday and wanted to find out more. It's nice to know that I have a one off piece but i'm surprised that a single person could engrave it with such detail and precision. Yours is quite crude compared to some. I just had a George V threepence sell yesterday that had been engraved with the entire Lords Prayer, now that is intricate work!

You can't price something that is unique, and all of these types are unique. If the subject matter was more appealing it could do £100+, I would guess yours would be in the £20-£50 region though.

I know the seller He also has a convict penny on there for just under £2k

Chris the big problem is that none of us have crystal balls or we would all be extremely wealthy! The best investment you can make is buying something that you like in the best grade that you can afford. If that happens to be a Queen Anne Guinea or a George I Halfcrown it does not matter. As long as you like the coin you will never lose on it. The best guide to buying anything in the antiques/collectables world is eye appeal. If you like it the chances are that somebody else will and when the time comes to move it on it should go at a decent price.

Choice "I can see the leaters (sic) B-R-A" no doubt for the tit he thinks will buy it

This is all marketing crap. If you really want to show the buying power of silver, why not use the 1980 $/£ adjusted figures? When the market peaked at $50.35 intra-day on 21st January 1980 up from its low of $4.50, then you can boast that it bought over 17 gallons of fuel. You might not want to tell the full story though, because it soon fell back to only buy 3 and a 1/2 gallons within a week or two. Or if you feel inclined, why not clarify the reasons why silver is going to increase in price by using examples such as this gleaned from wikipedia - quote "In April 2007, Commitments of Traders Report revealed that four or fewer traders held 90% of all short silver futures contracts totalling 245 million troy ounces, which is equivalent to 140 days of production. According to Ted Butler, one of these banks with large silver shorts, JPMorgan Chase, is also the custodian of the SLV silver ETF. Some silver analysis have pointed to a potential conflict of interest, as close scrutiny of Comex documents reveals that ETF shares may be used to "cover" Comex physical metal deliveries. This led analysts to speculate that some stores of silver have multiple claims upon them. On 25 September 2008 the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) relented and probed the silver market after persistent complaints of foul play.[22] In April 2010, Andrew Maguire, a former Goldman Sachs trader, went public with assertions of market manipulation by JPMorgan Chase and HSBC of the gold and silver markets, prompting a number of lawsuits.[23][24] In response to allegations of market manipulation from silver investors such as Max Keiser, Blythe Masters, Head of Global Commodities for JP Morgan, told CNBC in April 2012 "often when customers have metal stored in their facility, they hedge it through JP Morgan on a forward basis who in turn hedges itself in the commodity markets. If you see only the hedges and our activity in the futures market, but you aren’t aware of the underlying client position that we’re hedging then it would suggest inaccurately that we are running a large directional position."[25]" So you see, the market is invariably controlled by a few players who may change over time, but all have the same ultimate intention which is to get suckers to jump on board and buy their already overpriced metal in order to make a profit. Ultimately it will be the 'me too' want to get rich quick type of person who will end up the poorer. I think you are on the way there. If I have misread the situation and in fact you are operating a Ponzi scheme, I apologise for my stupidity in being unable to identify the type of scam involved. Sorry Rob, but, I have just read the bit of the post that you have highlighted and would love to know which garage Will refuels at? Silver is currently at £18.41/ounce and Will claims it will now buy 8 gallons of fuel... £2.30/gallon??? If you want to spout figures Will at least do your research/maths first.

Surely she meant to say (new) 'wife', John? If only I had the money..... in fact I think I would stay single and spend it on important things like good Malts, fine wines, Cuban cigars and fishing :D

Don't worry, I'm not a mason! What I'm saying is this. Unfettered opinion and genuine freedom of speech is being slowly but surely sidelined from mainstream communication and everyday life. This results in it being forced 'underground' and nowadays appearing on the nether reaches of the internet. The government is clearly not happy with this situation and has demonstrated every intention of wanting to police all such communication (witness the recent moves forcing ISPs to make data available). That's one step closer to allowing governments to open our mail, in my opinion. Whilst I most certainly don't agree with many opinions expressed, I will fight for the right to express them (to paraphrase Voltaire). You have in effect agreed with me. Why should we all have to 'sidestep' monitoring in everyday life. The UK is already the most surveilled country in the industrialised west, by the government's own admission. Ah, I see what you're saying. You're talking about the SOPA stuff (is that right acronym?). What you forget is this : if everyone who is worried about such stuff, whether or not they have anything to hide, set up several online identities, each one centred around a hotmail address containing fictional personal details, then anyone who was serious about monitoring us citizens would soon be chasing their tails. In actuality, if enough man hours were expended, such fake identities could be traced via injunctions served on ISPs (provided that the courts were presented with the evidence to furnish an injunction). However, this expenditure on man hours would entail more staff working on it than the entire Civil Service employs. For myself, I am endlessly grateful that the more limited effort that Government agencies expend, is to track down the activities of terrorists. Mike is quite correct. It only takes a little nous to sidestep a perceived lack of anonymity, and anyway the Government is neither interested nor has the resources to spy on the likes of us. As for people 35 or under, many hurl all their personal details into Facebook, so the lack of privacy there is self-inflicted and I have no sympathy with anyone who falls foul of scammers, government spies, or anyone else, if they don't have even the basic idea of personal discretion. A more pointless waste of human existence I (thankfully) have yet to encounter. My wife is 39 and has never read a book in her life but will happily spend 5 hours a day (every day)reading total pish about her friends/acquaintances and family on Brainf**k Facebook. Whenever I casually ask her WTF the point of the drivel is she tells me to "get a life, and see what's happening in the real world" Facebook, the real world???? Shit I think I must have taken the red pill by mistake

Therein lies your problem Will, you are on a coin collectors forum! Like Rob, I am a dealer. I have advised clients where to put money and over shortish terms they have all seen an increase of up to 100% on some purchases. They don't particularly care if the bottom drops out of the market though because they like the coins that they have bought. You may get a bite or two in here, but I doubt it. If you want some silver to buy do give me a call though as I am sitting on about 2 kilos of lower grade/scrap and also have plenty of silver proof stuff in stock.