Peter

Agreed. So it's another type B5. It seems strange that a major London auction house would make such a mistake. ESC is pretty clear that type B4 has 48 arcs. Unfortunately Nick, we are only human and therefor prone to making mistakes, unless you're feamle that is You may be right.Our partners could of chosen womanising boozers with a penchant for the better things in life...oops hang on there.

What happens if you want to say cockmonster? Look at my cookiemonster doesn't have the same ring. (please read the thread )

The Corbet issue also had problems on the 9&3 but I wouldn't say no....although for £9.5k I probably would.

Twas not me! I've been on my rack in the dungeon all day having melted wax poured on me whilst studying the die pairings of 1861 1d's.

You've hit the nail on the head.Currently varieties are not a science and unpublished ones not in ESC / Peck /Freeman will always need industry acceptance. Obvious examples of "missed" varieties are eventually added to the "accepted" list.(1858 small date 1/4d) On absolutefarthings Colin has just ploughed ahead and specialists can either take it or leave it.I have viewed it with caution but use my own gut feeling.I now realise some are too petty after my wife accidently dropped my trays (whilst moving for decorating)I still haven't matched them all up. Lets not go down the stamp collectors 20 shades of red avenue.If we are umming and arring over a piece for for so long and now need to go to "arbitration" is this what we really want?

Yes, that's another of the differences. Also there are a few minor differences in the ribbon immediately above the date (no fold on the left, thicker strand on the right). I'm impressed by your knowledge of Hocking! I can see myself getting around to asking them in around two years time LOL. I didn't know the references off the top of my head, just that Hocking contains the list of items in the RM museum as of 100 years ago. The big leap forward was learning to read about 50 years ago. Late learner Rob?

Peck I will swap yur for a rare 2010 2p...I know someone(Rob)who has one for sale.

I wouldn't worry too much about the pricing so an older version would be OK.For bullion all price guides are out of date. I have used the library in the past. Google will almost always give you an answer and Ebay a value (you may need to pop over to the country in question and brush up on coin languages)Ebay USA is also very useful. There are black market versions of Krause about on CD.

I would agree with that, the 2nd most common of the 12 generally acknowledged 1874 varieties. Looks around GVF, retail price £30-£35 perhaps less as mid-grade bun pennies are hardly flying off the shelves at present. The 1d boys seem to go for GEF + unless its one of those "RARE" blank discs...open 3 type thingies . I won't split hairs on the grade but it is a very nice GVF maybe approaching NEF. If MP sold it he would grade GEF.

I would of never thought of using the Hubble telescope.

In other words, only "one between two" for every inhabitant of Britain. Oh dear, a lot of people are going to go without. I won't deny you Peck.You can have my half

I'd better get on my bike and get one. I've picked up 5 different ones from circulation. I don't think I will bother looking out for 2010 2p's

I would prefer his crops to the farmers who use sludge cake (processed sewage ). If you knew what ended up at treatment plants and is converted to cake you wouldn't eat vegetables.

We are the Monkies Welcome to the forum. This is usual for your farthing.There are many dies used for this date which will give slight differences.The main variety is the rarish 4 over 0. 1754 is the most common George 11 farthing (and the last)Don't be kidded by Ebay prices.Nioe examples are available from specialist copper dealers.

Hi Si Is that Woolpit or Risby boot fair? I tried Woolpit the other week and it was rubbish...not a coin in sight and talk about tat. Nice work on the coin.

Ebay shilling ring. You will have to plough through the various threads...also on CC.

Herein lies the moral dilemma. If you are going to set up a business that purports to be a standard bearer for genuineness and general fidelity, then it is incompatible to accept any coin for slabbing that has been modified or otherwise "improved". I'm not criticising the workmanship, but if you are going to have rules, then they have to be uniformly applied. You can't have a system that everyone swears by based on a confidence that a coin is untampered with only to throw out the rule book because something looks nice. Otherwise, what is the problem with someone sneaking modern counterfeits past the graders having removed the identifying features? After all, the metal could be right, the design could be right, the method of manufacture could be right and with a bit of judicious modification, they could all be made to look different. People would complain if this happened and was discovered. You can't have selective application of any set of rules if the system's integrity depends on those rules. Coins routinely get rejected by the TPGs for environmental damage, or cleaning that nobody else can see; I can't see how this can be considered acceptable if their standards are to have any credibility. I have an issue with a certain (highly regarded and a reputation for strictness on grade)TPG who was selling a "best available" G1 farthing which clearly had verdigris.I pointed this out and was ignored. They then bought from their auction a bun Victorian farthing which was a beauty but had an edge knock. Next thing its in a slab with the price doubled and the edge knock conveniently disguised by the slab. Their quality control needs addressing to prevent being caught out. Also the statement "best available" can't be backed up and is a joke.It adds £ to the price and certainly dupes a few punters.

Fascinating Rob and without doubt the same coin.What a beauty. This is almost "what you don't know won't hurt you" If the restoration is professionally done,not evident and indeed enhances the coin is this so bad. This is how the furniture/art boys operate.

How can they tell, do you think? What do they know that you lot don't? Sadly, you can't rely on them. One of the gold pattern halfpennies I bought at Plymouth in 2008 with a large scratch/scuff on the cheek and subsequently sold resurfaced in last September's St.James's sale with the mark removed and now resides in an NGC PF64 ultra cameo slab instead of whatever code they give for damage or altered. Someone paid over US$30K for a tooled coin, which I can almost guarantee was done unknowingly. Having said that, when I posted the info on a US forum, the silence was deafening, so I guess they didn't care too much that it had slipped through and assume the guarantee of genuineness was more important. Shite, isn't it? Rob Who did you sell it to and for how much? I'm horrified that this could happen with a £20k coin. How have NGC taken the news?....something like this could cause serious damage to slabbing companies. But hey a slabber isn't an expert in some of our specialised fields. I sold it to Steven Fenton at the Harrogate fair in March 2010 for a sum between what I paid for it and what it sold for in the Sept. sale where it resurfaced in the slab. It had a 5% import surcharge for EU bidders, so had obviously been exported outside the EU in the interim. I assume that it went across the pond. The hammer price was £17K (or about £20K with the premium) and was sold to an American dealer, so it is reasonable to assume it is now Stateside again. I did a thread on the PCGS forum called slab images as I was trying to get an NGC archived image to see what they had and compare it with the Plymouth sale CD images together with my own and the Mitchell-David and other properties patterns and proofs. NGC may or may not know about it as this would require them to monitor the PCGS forum. Clearly they aren't going to wave a big flag saying we can't tell a tooled coin when we see one. This incidentally goes full circle back to the question of provenance. A unique gold coin will always be imaged in modern times, so modifying it to remove blemishes is crass because someone is going to point it out. Having owned the coin for a couple years, I know I'm not wrong and so I raised the issue. For a forum filled with people extolling the virtues and benefits of slabbing, the minimal response was very surprising. So...if you hadn't owned the coin could you tell if it had been tooled? Would a gold coin with a blemish assist with its authenticity? Several years ago I was looking to invest in some hammered gold...alas I didn't.I was warned by CC. I would have bought VF nicely struck examples.

With hammered,dies can be produced to replicate the originals...1000 year old silver is dug up everyday.Trevor Ashmore produced some nice fakes. What is stopping a nice little tick over of Edward 1 pennies? No one would suspect.

How can they tell, do you think? What do they know that you lot don't? Sadly, you can't rely on them. One of the gold pattern halfpennies I bought at Plymouth in 2008 with a large scratch/scuff on the cheek and subsequently sold resurfaced in last September's St.James's sale with the mark removed and now resides in an NGC PF64 ultra cameo slab instead of whatever code they give for damage or altered. Someone paid over US$30K for a tooled coin, which I can almost guarantee was done unknowingly. Having said that, when I posted the info on a US forum, the silence was deafening, so I guess they didn't care too much that it had slipped through and assume the guarantee of genuineness was more important. Shite, isn't it? Rob Who did you sell it to and for how much? I'm horrified that this could happen with a £20k coin. How have NGC taken the news?....something like this could cause serious damage to slabbing companies. But hey a slabber isn't an expert in some of our specialised fields.

Dave I agree with Colin. Take one step back and if you still feel bad so be it. The hobby is fascinating,accessible,available 24/7 and if you run a tight ship may increase in value year on. There can be bad eggs but the majority of dealers and fellow collectors are trustworthy and from experience educated and pleasant. We all like a bit of banter and that is where it should remain.Getting uptight about situations never appears to be the answer. Peter

Don't wind the lad up. From a very early age I was convinced I had an early unrecorded hammered groat (that my father dug up in his allotment).It was of course a jetton.

Thats Ebay for you. I wouldn't be without it whether selling or buying. Why did you buy it?..I thought your sideline was stretched limo's. To change the subject.How is the coin book idea to cover milled pre 1797 coming on?

And obviously a bank account to match the dreams Any chance you could adopt me Rob?I'd like to also place on record that i'm Robs love child and lay any claim to his collection Got some news for you.Your real parents are Martin & Tracey from the West country who sold you for a shilling (Thomas Hardy Mayor of Casterbridge like) to the Wier family from Ayrshire...hang on.